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model 10 · 10-06-2013, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BozSail

So... here's my 64 dollar question (actually it could cost me quite a bit more than that):
I have a brand new rode made up of 30 feet of chain and 270 feet of rope. Do I have to buy a whole new rode if I want to significantly increase the chain, or can I get a reliable swivel that will allow me to connect about 100 feet of the same chain --- and still have the entire chain portion of the rode pass through my windlass without getting caught???

Some say that a double clevis link will run through a gypsy. It is certainly the strongest way to connect 2 pieces of chain. The Crosby piece is rated at 4000 lbs for 1/4-5/16 link but is just painted. There are Chinese jobs that are galvinized but rated at 3900 lbs. I would be leery of it actually running through the gypsy dependably on a vertical windlass but I don't know.

**Cotemar** · 10-06-2013, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir

Add extra chain with one of these. The naysayers will bash me on this but mine worked just fine. Whack it good and hard with a 5lb or 10lb hammer.

Worldwide Enterprises Chain Link

You can always cut the rope section in half and use the rest later.

Do you want to risk your boat on a $5 chain link connector.
Do some homework and then deside.
It's cheaper to do it right the first time.

Connectors

savoir · 10-06-2013, 16:59

I can, I do and I have - all coral, all rock, you name it. 100% successful.

You MUST give the pin thingies a real whack and all will be fine.

**Jim Cate** · 10-06-2013, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir

I can, I do and I have - all coral, all rock, you name it. 100% successful.

You MUST give the pin thingies a real whack and all will be fine.

Agreed... have used for years of cruising and thousands of nights at anchor. Buy from known source, and if you are paranoid, use a dyneema lashing as backup as recommended by Evans Starzinger.

this subject has been extensively debated here on CF... try a search on chain joining links for lots of opinions and even some data!

Jim

**Cotemar** · 10-06-2013, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir

I can, I do and I have - all coral, all rock, you name it. 100% successful.

You MUST give the pin thingies a real whack and all will be fine.

I know it works for you, but that $5 link would keep me up at knight in a blow thinking is it going to hold through this 2am storm.
I am an un-lucky gambler, so do not gamble anymore.

savoir · 10-06-2013, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Agreed... have used for years of cruising and thousands of nights at anchor. Buy from known source, and if you are paranoid, use a dyneema lashing as backup as recommended by Evans Starzinger.

this subject has been extensively debated here on CF... try a search on chain joining links for lots of opinions and even some data!

Jim

I faced the same issue as OP in 2006 when I bought a boat with only 50ft of chain. The local chandler had chain offcuts on special and I bought a 50' and a 60' and a 5lb hammer and 2 of those 5/16" links from Defender. All I needed was an anvil. I waited until about 7pm and then wheeled the chain down to the biggest cleat on the dock.

What happened after that is classified . . . . . . unless you have contacts at NSA.

model 10 · 10-06-2013, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

I know it works for you, but that $5 link would keep me up at knight in a blow thinking is it going to hold through this 2am storm.
I am an un-lucky gambler, so do not gamble anymore.

With a regular link of chain you gamble on the weld in the link to hold. You can buy chain that has every link tested but that is not the norm I suspect that they sample welds in regular chain and guess that the rest are all OK. Afterall,we are talking about thousands of links and the failure rate would need to pretty low, very low. Betting on the chain to fail would have pretty low odds. A cold shot link like that shown, has no such odds in it's favor. If you look at a link of chain during a failure mode you would see it collapsing in the middle. To think that a cold shot link with just a couple of small rivets to hold it together would not pull apart is naive. Really strong chain has a link in the middle to keep it from collapsing. Just becuase you have a cold shot link in your chain and it has not failed yet is no assurance that it won't.
It's lame to say but your chain is as strong as the weakest link. With a cold shot link you have a weak link, no question.

savoir · 10-06-2013, 18:45

Well I have a question. How come the manufacturer rates the C link to the same AWL as BBB of the same diameter ?

**Cotemar** · 10-06-2013, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir

Well I have a question. How come the manufacturer rates the C link to the same AWL as BBB of the same diameter ?

That would make the C link the weakest link in my 5/16 high tensil G4 chain.

savoir · 10-06-2013, 18:58

That is an irrelevant comparison which proves nothing

model 10 · 10-06-2013, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir

Well I have a question. How come the manufacturer rates the C link to the same AWL as BBB of the same diameter ?

The ad I read said it was rated at 1900 lbs. G4 chain is more like 4900.

John A · 10-06-2013, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonJo

You would need a very long and very heavy chain for the last links to stay on the bottom (giving that horizontal pull) in 40 knots. In fact the chain would be so heavy and so long I doubt it is feasible. Being realistic and on the basis most people will own a recent (20 years) fibreglass relatively light yacht, one needs to anticipate that all the chain, which will possibly be 10mm max, will be off the seabed at less than 30 knots.

A snubber of a reasonable length and not too thick (maybe 12mm for a 40'/45' yachjt), the snubber thread seemed to suggest more than 6m - maybe 10m, absorbs the snatch loads. Modern anchors when well and correctly set will work even when the load is not parallel to the seabed.

Jonathan

I really don't want to get into a pi**ing contest with you. When the shank raises from the sea floor is how you free the anchor from the bottom.

I can only relate my experiences based on living 10 years on the hook mostly in the Caribbean on a 11 ton boat with 300' of 5/16th chain. Sometimes it blew over 40 knots. Sometimes I was forced to anchor in 60' of water, Sometimes 4' seas made the bow dig in the water while at anchor. Once, at Grand Cayman, while anchored 500' from shore, people who were standing 5' above the water line reported that my entire hull would disappear in the trough of the swell. And yes, sometimes my anchor dragged, forcing me to analyze and experiment until I learned what worked and what didn't..

There are 2 types of people who anchor - those who have drug their anchor and those that will.

savoir · 10-06-2013, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

The ad I read said it was rated at 1900 lbs. G4 chain is more like 4900.

Another irrelevant comparison.

**Cotemar** · 10-06-2013, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir

That is an irrelevant comparison which proves nothing

When I design a ground tackle system for a boat, I start with the Working Load Limit (WLL) of my anchor chain as the starting point.
The anchor shackle, bridal and bridal hook all have higher Working Load Limits.

This makes the chain the weakest part of my ground tackle system, but my chain is rated for a bigger heaver boat.

If I put a C Link as a chain splice on my G4 chain, than that would truly be my weakest link.

It is a very relevant comparison which proves that my ground tackle system is a planned system with a failure mode much higher than what I plan to put my boat through.