Electric windlass? Yea or nay?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Mike, on a beautiful morning when you are making a scheduled departure for the days sailing, your idyllic picture is a true pleasure, and a bit of morning mild exercise is not an evil prospect... quite agreed there.

But there are other time one needs to weigh...

Last weekend a pretty decent storm system affected the New South Wales coast. Long periods of ~50 knot winds, wave rider buoys reporting combined sea and swell heights of as much as 22 metres... pretty crappy wx!

We were anchored on the north side of Towler's bay for the predicted northerly quadrant winds, and were faring just fine. The forecast had been consistently predicting the wind to go from NE through to NW, possibly even W, and we were ok from all those directions. But, the low center changed direction and passed to the other side of us, a factor that only appeared in the f/c in the late afternoon... and we didn't catch the change in time. So, the wind went to the S, putting us on a lee shore, and damn close at that. Had to move. Now it is pitch dark, pissing down rain, and gusting around 40 knots. Had about 150 feet of chain out, 25 feet depth, other boats moored nearby.

I was REALLY glad to have a fairly fast acting powered windlass.

Jim

Well said Jim! As always

[wsmurdoch]

Electric windlass and an electric wash down pump. +++++++++ No. 1

Mine are a 26 year old Muir 800 vertical and a Groco pump. Don't leave home without it.

Anchored in mud, you will love the washdown pump. Take it from someone who once did not have one.

The electric windlass is not only a convenience, it is also a safety item. When you have to leave in a hurry, you have to leave in a hurry. The 1200W motor is stronger than I am and faster pulling chain than I could ever be. It does not care that it is blowing rain like hell and the bow of the boat is acting like a bull in a rodeo. It does the pulling, and I still have all ten fingers.

Bill Murdoch
1988 PSC 34
Irish Eyes
Irish Eyes to the Bahamas

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Mike, on a beautiful morning when you are making a scheduled departure for the days sailing, your idyllic picture is a true pleasure, and a bit of morning mild exercise is not an evil prospect... quite agreed there.



But there are other time one needs to weigh...



Last weekend a pretty decent storm system affected the New South Wales coast. Long periods of ~50 knot winds, wave rider buoys reporting combined sea and swell heights of as much as 22 metres... pretty crappy wx!



We were anchored on the north side of Towler's bay for the predicted northerly quadrant winds, and were faring just fine. The forecast had been consistently predicting the wind to go from NE through to NW, possibly even W, and we were ok from all those directions. But, the low center changed direction and passed to the other side of us, a factor that only appeared in the f/c in the late afternoon... and we didn't catch the change in time. So, the wind went to the S, putting us on a lee shore, and damn close at that. Had to move. Now it is pitch dark, pissing down rain, and gusting around 40 knots. Had about 150 feet of chain out, 25 feet depth, other boats moored nearby.



I was REALLY glad to have a fairly fast acting powered windlass.



Jim

Would you have been able to haul the anchor In this situation by hand?


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[Hudson Force]

I've had my times of tiring when attempting a third setting of an anchor in a location with poor holding. I've lost my hold on the earth with a thunder storm pushing me toward a rocky lee shore. I often pause after every ten strokes while raising my last forty feet of chain from the mud, in order to shake my chain with a boat hook for a rinse. I've never risked my fingers, but that's simply following proper safety procedures.



I'm looking forward to the time when installing an electric windlass with a wash down pump reaches the top of my project list. 'maybe within the next year or so. We're becoming older cruisers and I've been attentive to those needs to make my boat a true "geriatric vessel". Most of my recent tasks have been to accommodate Nancie's mobility. I should make sure that she retains the ability to raise and set an anchor.

I can't say anything bad about this Simpson-Lawrence "Sea Tiger" in the photo that has served me well for about 20 or 25 years.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by smj

Would you have been able to haul the anchor In this situation by hand?


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Very likely not, although adrenaline and fear can wreak miracles at times! When there are big wind loads combined with even small waves (and the wave action in this case was not severe at all) and the boat shearing to the oscillating gusts, attempting to weigh by hand could have been very risky. We do not have a chain stopper, and so all the transient loads associated with the situation would have been coupled to my hands, and I'm just not that strong.

Honestly, with a 60 lb anchor and 10 mm chain, I'd be hard pressed to do it in a calm. Our fall back method is chain hooks on lines lead to cockpit winches. Tedious but effective. So, yes, i could have weighed by that method, but when less than a boat length from a lee shore (at full scope) the slow progress afforded thus would have been scary!

Closer attention to the f/c could have prevented the issue. We're pretty experienced anchorers and still missed this one. Could happen to anyone!

Again: I sure was happy to have the windllass. And BTW, when re-anchoring on the other side of the bay in the dark and severely impaired visibility, our first attempt left us far too close to one of the permanently moored boats, so I had to do it all over again. Not so much adrenaline that time, but again, having the powered windlass meant that fatigue wasn't a factor in relocating the second time. But I was a bit grumpy...

Jim

[JPA Cate]

I guess the important thing about Jim's story is the wind strength. It is good to know up to what wind strength your engine can reliably move the boat.

I think the scariest incident that ever happened with our manual windlass was the time an out of season cyclone tracked far south of its predicted position, the eye went over us, and we mistook that for the storm having moved on.

When it suddenly came up from the SW, we were on a lee shore and with 2-3 m. seas. Getting the anchor up involved Jim being plunged under water repeatedly, having to hang on, and only able to work the windlass through part of the pitching cycles. On that occasion, it was necessary to motor sail using the storm jib to short tack out of the bay and to the ocean because the wind strength (anemometer pegged at 60) was so great that the engine alone couldn't handle it. That whole exercise would not have had a successful outcome at all without some kind of windlass, and I can flat out guarantee that it would have been a lot easier with an electric one.

No one ever plans for an event like the above, it was totally out of season, predicted wrong, AND we didn't adequately understand what was happening. Weather cells pop up, and a purely local phenomenon can give you a whole lot to think about in a hurry.

Ann

[170122]

A must have but get a Quick, you will find them available on ebay.
30 Ft SAIL boat 12v Will require a 700w , I have one on my boat, after 5 YEARS It looks Like NEW. They have Vertical AND horizontal configurations.

Originally Posted by JiminVA

My venerable Simpson-Lawrence HySpeed manual windlass just broke. I may be able to get the broken parts, but am also wondering if I should just use that as an excuse/opportunity to install an electric windlass.

I have a 30', 12,000 pound sailboat with a 33# Bruce anchor and 40' of 3/8" BBB chain plus rope rode. I normally anchor in the Chesapeake in 8' to 20' of water. (Hope to be venturing further afield next year.) Several folks I know have told me that I will realize how great having an electric windlass and all chain (yup, I'd buy new chain too) can be as soon as I upgrade. Part of me likes the KISS of the manual windlass. But I can see several advantages of the electric...including the fact that my wife could raise the anchor if she wanted to do that instead of taking the helm.

I realize everyone's situation is different, but if you switched to an electric windlass were you happy with the change? Any advantages, disadvantages I haven't thought of?

[Hudson Force]

As I begin looking for my future electric windlass how likely will I be to find one that has a manual fail safe function?

I understand Jim & Ann Cate's chain hook, line and cockpit winch method, but I would hope to find a mechanical back-up on an electric winch. I know I've seen these many years ago with a hand crank option. Are they no longer common?

Edit: It also seems that a hydraulic windlass operated by an electric pump to move the fluid would require far less electrical power and long heavy gauge cables. Any thoughts?

[pdenton]

If you don't have the physical strength to pull up a 35# anchor you are a danger to yourself and your crew. What use are you when the **** hits the fan. Save the money and get a membership in a gym.

[knockabout]

we use 50 kilo of 6mm stainless chain / 15lb cqr and no windlass
i fitted a windlass 10 years ago it was a pain but looked good and made interesting noises / removed it after a while and gave it to a yachty with a bad back / if you have the battery power and the dollars go for electric / if not pulling up the anchor now and then saves the cost of fees to a weight gym same as rowing the dinghy and regular sex helps keep us in shape

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

As I begin looking for my future electric windlass how likely will I be to find one that has a manual fail safe function?



I understand Jim & Ann Cate's chain hook, line and cockpit winch method, but I would hope to find a mechanical back-up on an electric winch. I know I've seen these many years ago with a hand crank option. Are they no longer common?



Edit: It also seems that a hydraulic windlass operated by an electric pump to move the fluid would require far less electrical power and long heavy gauge cables. Any thoughts?

HudsonForce, a Lofrans Tigres horizontal windlass costs about $2,500 USD. (Not including electric cables and switches.) It does have a manual back up capability although it is, as I mentioned above, tediously slow but still easier than lines run back to cockpit winches. The Tigres is the right size for your boat too.


S/V B'Shert

[smj]

Originally Posted by pdenton

If you don't have the physical strength to pull up a 35# anchor you are a danger to yourself and your crew. What use are you when the **** hits the fan. Save the money and get a membership in a gym.

A good thought, but for some of us the gym membership won't help our ailing bodies. At this point you have two choices, to rely on electronics to make up for the lack of strength or to downsize in boat size and the relative loads.


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[Steadman Uhlich]

This has been a very good thread or discussion, thanks to all the experience shown in the posts, by so many members. Thank you All!

I also want to thank Uncivilized for taking the time to raise so many good points in his longer detailed post. Considering the various scenarios where having an electric windlass can be especially important, such as during times of stress, is good.

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by JiminVA

I have a 30', 12,000 pound sailboat with a 33# Bruce anchor and 40' of 3/8" BBB chain plus rope rode. I normally anchor in the Chesapeake in 8' to 20' of water.

I know its not the cruisers forum "way" to read all of the OP's question before
scaring the bejesus out of everyone with horror stories of escaping from lee shores during gales on 46 footers with electric windlasses. BUT

The OP has a "small" sailboat with 12 meters of chain and the rest rode.

I'm sure a manual windlass will do just fine for your purpose .

If you want to go for the electric version just remember you may need to upgrade your electrical system as well.

I have a 2 speed manual muir windlass on my 12000lb catamaran and whilst at times I have thought an electric one would be nice I love the simplicity .

Been fine for the last 17 years.

PS I also like to row the tender (no motor)

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

I know its not the cruisers forum "way" to read all of the OP's question before
scaring the bejesus out of everyone with horror stories of escaping from lee shores during gales on 46 footers with electric windlasses. BUT

The OP has a "small" sailboat with 12 meters of chain and the rest rode.

I'm sure a manual windlass will do just fine for your purpose .

If you want to go for the electric version just remember you may need to upgrade your electrical system as well.

I have a 2 speed manual muir windlass on my 12000lb catamaran and whilst at times I have thought an electric one would be nice I love the simplicity .

Been fine for the last 17 years.

PS I also like to row the tender (no motor)

Sorry if you found my posts unnecessarily alarmist. We (CF) has a member who posted here, Mike OReilly, who is now leaving on an open ended cruise. My motivation behind my Raoul Is. story of Cyclone Lisa, was to alert him to a possibility he might not have otherwise thought of.

Imho, one should suit one's windlass's capabilities to the types of sailing and areas one intends to be. For instance, if you want to go to Fr. Polynesia, some of those anchorages are extremely deep, and for that reason, if you have heavy anchor and chain, you might be better served by a powerful electric windlass (or hydraulic) than by the arm strong method. Another example, we used to anchor on a Danforth, with about 30 ft. of chain and lots of rope rode in CA. That was not adequate for further afield.

Nuff said.

Ann