Electric windlass? Yea or nay?

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

No harm, no foul. Don't worry about it.

Also, without the electric windlass, you will anchor more conservatively simply because you understand your vulnerability, that it will take longer to get the anchor up. Mostly, it doesn't matter. Mostly, one doesn't have to do it in a hurry..... And, when you have it, you do tend to rely on it.

Ann

Occasionally I find myself without a working anchor winch and what tends to happen is my minimum clearance under the keel at low tide goes from about 3' back to about 6". Then when ready to hoist the anchor I find myself hauling in enough chain to get the anchor to drag whilst I almost go aground hauling the ground tackle into the shallowest patch of water I can find.

I have found the tide function on OpenCPN to be a great help as one can find the present depth when about to anchor and deduct the next lowest water to get the absolute minimum clearance required.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Just adding a key "think" or three, which thus far, have kinda' gone unmentioned.

Many of the posts herein, talk about motoring up to your anchor, hauling in the rode as you go. But there are times when the engine just won't be able to handle this. So depending on it, is as much of a vulnerability as is depending on any powered windlass.

As the engine either may not be powerful enough for the task of getting you to the anchor, & then holding station (hovering) above it: Due to the wind & sea conditions of the moment. And, or, when the wind & sea state are moderate to high, that kind of pinpoint maneuvering is nigh on impossible anyway.


Plus, when it's blowing 40kts+, gusting & veering even higher, with breaking waves surrounding you. Along with a current running, & rain so strong that it requires a scuba mask for the helmsman to be able to see, literally. Then even in the day time, there's no way the person on the bow, & on the helm, will have high quality comm’s while retrieving the hook. Especially not at the level required for such fine tuning of the boat's position. Let alone “talking” to each other when the above scenario(s) transpire at 0300.

So, counting on being able to directly motor up to the anchor, is something of a critical fallacy. And a bit of a seamanship faux pau.
As demonstrated by Ann's comment about needing Both the storm jib, & the engine, together, in order to beat out of what had suddenly become a bad anchorage. Due to a sudden, severe weather shift.


Also, what happens when the engine won't start? Or quits half way through the setting or retrieval process? And anyone can snag a line in the prop at an inopportune moment. Be it the dinghy painter or something else.


Thus, in any & all, of the above scenarios, you're pretty much forced to use the power windlass to pull the boat to the anchor to some degree. If not 100%. So, oversizing one's windlasses a bit, is cheap insurance. Especially when you look at the tables which show the loads on anchor rodes when the wind is up.
For one day, you windlass may have to do all of the work vs. Neptune & Aeolis in such conditions; to both get you to the anchor, as well as to retrieve it (perhaps more than once).


Plus, even on a "small" boat, say a 30'er, if there's much of a current running, wind blowing, or you're on the downhill side of some fetch. Those are situations where even Hercules would have trouble retrieving "lunch hook" sized ground tackle by hand. As the loads on the rode are just too high, particularly the snatching ones; which happen with each wave striking the boat.

And consider this: Few people are strong enough to swim uphill against a 2kt current... Thus, pulling even a small boat uphill against such is definitely, out.


PS: To extrapolate on RaymondR's post. At some point, you may find yourself in a situation where you use your windlass as one of the tools to free yourself from a grounding. Thus, again, having one with a little extra HP may pay dividends.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Just adding a key "think" or three, which thus far, have kinda' gone unmentioned............

Most windlasses aren't rated to pull the boat up to the anchor against a heavy wind or current. Read the manual and they will recommend against it even in calm conditions. If the engine can't make headway against the wind and waves, your average winch is going to burn out before it does it unless you upsize it for a much larger boat.

If conditions have a current or significant wind, you take a turn around the cleat to use the friction in your favor and motor up waiting for the slack to come as the boat veers back and forth. Once above the anchor, you do an extra turn or two to really hold it, then use the motor to break it out. (this does assume you aren't running solo)

If it's really that bad, you can always lead a line back to one of the sail winches

Short of emergency, we aren't anchoring in breaking waves but we also have a large wide deck space to work on, so even with a little bouncing, it's not a big issue.

Yes, if the engine isn't working, it won't help but if we can't get the engine going, we are typically going to sort that out before pulling the anchor. We certainly aren't going to pull it until we have a good plan of action for when the anchor comes up.

[Sandero]

While you can encounter a completely out of ordinary set of circumstances... planning your equipment around this may not be possible financially or physically

You certainly can install an "oversized" windlass... with heavier chain... And of course current is supplied by the engine which is running.

If you can't retrieve the anchor you should be able to LEAVE it buoyed so you can come back and pick it up in calm weather. I've actually done that once and it worked fine.

The windlass is not engineered to pull the boat. It's designed to take the catenary out of the chain... then the chain will form a new catenary and the boat will make way a bit and so on... moving to over the anchor and then the windlass is powerful enough to raise the chain and anchor once it's broken free.

Selecting the optimal location to drop the hook is critical to getting it out and getting away safely. Be aware of possible wind shifts etc. And don't expect the windlass to save your ass in all situations... when you anchored in a crazy location.

[Seaslug Caravan]

[QUOTE=UNCIVILIZED

Plus, even on a "small" boat, say a 30'er, if there's much of a current running, wind blowing, or you're on the downhill side of some fetch. Those are situations where even Hercules would have trouble retrieving "lunch hook" sized ground tackle by hand. As the loads on the rode are just too high, particularly the snatching ones; which happen with each wave striking the boat.


[/QUOTE]

No you simply don't understand the options.

Speaking as one who has never owned a powered windlass, and one who has done approx half of their miles singe handed, I can say its "ALL IN THE TECHNIQUE " when using a manual windlass.

Forget the motor when your running around like a one armed wall paper hanger
, alone in yucky conditions on a lee shore trying to get the pick up.

I get some main up, sheeted tight , and recover the anchor rode in small snatches as the boat tacks backwards and forwards across the rode all on its lonesome, with the main filling and luffing as the bow cycles though the wind. (Sometimes you get lucky and get most of it back in one cycle.)

The main has the added advantage of keeping the bow up as the anchor breaks free.

I'm sure every boat has slightly different handling characteristics. Certainly worth sorting out if your not relying on brute force and ignorance to remain safe when anchored.

Of course there is the option of dropping the lot ,bouyed, and returning later, but luckily ive never needed to resort to that.

I

[UNCIVILIZED]

Gent's, the techniques which you've shared since my earlier post, are all good ones. However, the majority of them aren't viable if you're needing to leave in a hurry. As in RIGHT NOW.
And if you're anchored, & breaking waves start to form around you, it's definitely one of those times. Regardless of what onboard systems are or aren't working.


And, yeah, I know that windlass's aren't designed around the idea of using them to pull the boat. Though at times, in dire circumstances, it may be necessary. And to some degree, even under normal circumstances, they Are partially pulling the boat towards the anchor anyway. As if such weren't the case, then it wouldn't the SOP recommendation to have a windlass which can lift triple the weight of your entire ground tackle package, minimum.

However, even when subjected to the loads involved with pulling the boat towards your hook (partially, or fully), you're not likely to burn them out... Unless you wired them in wrong in the first place. As if/when they get overloaded, the breaker trips. Ergo, no worries.

Plus, call me a simpleton. But were I hard aground, & had a bit of time to work on freeing the boat, when she didn't come loose using the standard methods. Then I'd take my spare 600'+ spool of strong line (or several long lines linked together), plus a couple of super high load blocks. And rig up a purchase system to attach to a hefty kedging anchor. Using the windlass as the motive force for the tackle, to try & free her that way.

Sometimes necessity dictates that you use gear in manners for which it was never designed. We've gotten more than a couple of astronauts safely back to Earth that way. Read up on Gordo Cooper for example. Or watch/read about the Apollo 13 mission.


And, yep, dropping your ground tackle under such circumstances is certainly an option. But if things have gotten to the point where they're hairy enough to need to do that, then I'm guessing that for most people, managing to attach a buoy to the rode will be extremely difficult, at best.
Especially given what conditions on the foredeck would be like at that time. And the fact that you have to attach the buoy to the rode, out in front of the bow roller.
AKA you'll be stretched out awkwardly in front of the boat, trying to work with a wildly moving chain which wants to eat body parts. All while being fully submerged 50%+ of the time.

This, on top of the fact, that if things are bad enough to make one need to dump the whole ground tackle package. Then putting a floating line in close proximity to the boat; at a time when handling her is dicey at best, is surely a serious judgement call.

As if the float line then snags your prop, it may either; shut down your engine, & or, tear out your P-bracket. Thus making things 10x worse.
For, now, you can't maneuver, & your best hook is down on the sea floor. While you're drifting, sans power, towards the lee shore which you were trying to get away from at in the first place.
Possibly with a good sized hole in the hull, where the P-bracket formerly was bolted on. To add yet more mayhem to the situation.


BTW: Some folks will add a short length of polypro line (water sking rope) to the tail end of their ground tackle. So that a few feet of line floats above the bottom. For when they go back to search for their ground tackle. But with the line tail being short enough so that it won't foul the prop in anything but water depths where the boat's almost aground anyway.