Extremely Disappointed in Maggi Chain

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by zboss

Contact your insurance company and see if they will cover a replacement. It's a potential liability and if it got around that they were insuring a bunch of bunch of boats with unsatisfactory chain that is claimed as being satisfactory... that is a problem they can resolve.

Doesn't seem right to download this type of problem to the insurance company.

[zboss]

For what purpose? You are a client and they can be your advocate. I'm not sure why people don't take advantage of all the services available to them.

[accomplice]

I cannot imagine it would go well if I were to tell my insurance company that my anchor chain was defective and that my boat was at risk of going aground as a result. Their response would either be to cancel my policy or to remind me that they are now not responsible for any damages due to the defective anchor chain. In other words, if it is my boat, it is my problem.

The following are the relevant clauses in my insurance policy -- I suspect they are in most policies:

* If failure to act as a prudent self-insured proximately causes or increases damage or losses, there is no coverage to the extent that such failure causes or increases the damages or losses.

* Failure to exercise reasonable diligence in maintaining the insured vessel and all other property, in good condition and repair, may result in cancellation of policy.

* Failure to exercise due diligence in maintaining the yacht and all other insured property in good and seaworthy condition will result in the denial of any claim if such failure is a proximate cause of the loss.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Galvanizing is done at 800+ temp right? Steel annealing requires 1400-1600 degrees IIRC. Not sure any tempering at all will occur at 800.....

We normalize our welded steel 4130 steel tube fuselage at 800 to 850, so yes it will heat treat or anneal to some extent. I believe worst case if you hot galvanize G7 chain you essentially end up with G4 chain.

[crabcake]

Originally Posted by zboss

For what purpose? You are a client and they can be your advocate. I'm not sure why people don't take advantage of all the services available to them.

I would be concerned that the insurance company would raise rates or cancel. After all, there are no real government regulations for [US] marine insurance carriers. They can do pretty much what they want insofar as rates and cancellations. No sheriff to ride herd on them.

[GordMay]

Maggi chain has a generally very good reputation. Their Aqua 7 chain is Hot Dipped Galvanized, unlike most other Grade 7 chains. I’m surprised to hear of complaints about this premium chain.

In Canada, G7 is generally characterized as “Transport Chain”, a high strength chain made from quenched and tempered steel, with an electro-galvanized gold chromate finish.

See Also ➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...lier-3512.html

[crabcake]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Maggi chain has a generally very good reputation. Their Aqua 7 chain is Hot Dipped Galvanized, unlike most other Grade 7 chains. I’m surprised to hear of complaints about this premium chain.

In Canada, G7 is generally characterized as “Transport Chain”, a high strength chain made from quenched and tempered steel, with an electro-galvanized gold chromate finish.

See Also ➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...lier-3512.html

After reading the OP's PDF documenting the back and forth between him and the Maggie US distributor and the factory in Italy, its very apparent he has received the royal run-around.

Based on their total lack of honesty and fairness, IMHO they deserve nothing more than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. I wouldn't consider buying anything at any price from them.

Clearly they have shown nothing but contempt and dishonesty to the OP, and consequently, no boater or cruiser should consider doing business with them, else face the same potential consequences.

I'll be posting this link on fishing forums I belong to, as a warning to others.

[Palarran]

Wow. Sorry your having so much trouble. I know you posted the photos on a different thread, but maybe you should do so again on this one. That way if someone is searching for Maggi Aqua chain they will see them.

Good luck.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by crabcake

I would be concerned that the insurance company would raise rates or cancel. After all, there are no real government regulations for [US] marine insurance carriers. They can do pretty much what they want insofar as rates and cancellations. No sheriff to ride herd on them.

Get a new insurance company!

Seriously... after my experience with a lightning strike and my friends experience with the hurricane I followed up with our insurance only to find that they generally don't raise rates after non-negligent claims.

I've learned that marine insurance companies are different than car insurance or house insurance companies. The adjusters that work for true marine insurers are mostly cruisers that have swallowed the hook. They will work with you to solve problems.

If you DON'T say anything and you don't replace your chain and something happens... well that is on you.

Even if the insurance company doesn't cover the chain cost they have great resources available to help you find replacement items cheaply and act as your advocate in disputes. You need to replace the chain anyhow.

[Cheechako]

I cant imagine trying the insurance company for product deficiency, my bad choices, or worn out items. I guess that's why rates are high and getting higher. Everyone wants the rest of us to pay for their problems...

[crabcake]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I cant imagine trying the insurance company for product deficiency, my bad choices, or worn out items. I guess that's why rates are high and getting higher. Everyone wants the rest of us to pay for their problems...

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I cant imagine trying the insurance company for product deficiency, my bad choices, or worn out items. I guess that's why rates are high and getting higher. Everyone wants the rest of us to pay for their problems...

Its ultimately their choice as to pay out or not. If it were not a good business choice, they would choose not to pay out. You are not even giving them a chance to make that choice.

And like I said, even if they DON'T pay out they still have resources to assist. Nevermind, its your choice to be a victim of another bad business or not.

[SVNeko]

I wanted to update my original post with Maggi's response to my public complaints about the chain I purchased from them. Shortly after my posting (here and in several other forums), I received a response from the Company seeking to expedite assistance to me. It turns out that they do not produce very much Aqua7 in 5/16” - most of their production is in metric sizes. This accounted for the delay. Bad communication accounted for the lack of explanation to me. As to the rusting issue, Corrado Maggi says they do on rare occasion suffer loss of galvanizing, but no more on the Aqua7 than on Aqua4. This is hopeful as there has been some speculation that the higher strength chain does not take galvanizing as well as lower strength chains. In any event, they offered to ship to me immediately a replacement chain in Aqua4 and then when a new batch of Aqua7 is produced to ship a length of that to me as well, since the Aqua4 in 5/16” is not an appropriate strength for our boat. We have now received and installed the Aqua4 and are awaiting final production of the Aqua7 replacement. This has been a more than sufficient response for us so far, and we will update this post again with respect to the final receipt of the Aqua7 chain and the performance of the Aqua4 they sent to us. To reiterate, we had been happy with a length of Aqua4 for 6 years (which had been on the boat for 10 years). We hope that the new chain they send us will perform as well and that the rusty batch was just an outlier.

Originally Posted by SVNeko

My boat had a load of Maggi Aqua4 chain (or whatever they called their G4 back then) that was original to its build in 2004. It was superior chain that I changed out in 2015. It was really only showing a bit of rust where the links connected, but I had the opportunity to replace it and wanted to lighten my ground tackle load. I purchased Maggi Aqua7 chain in a size smaller - 5/16”. It is essentially equivalent in strength to 3/8” G4 chain, and it saved me well over 100lbs on the foredeck.

However, after about a year on the boat the chain started showing alarming amounts of rust and corrosion. Now, after a year and a half, I need to replace it ASAP. This is far to soon for this chain to rust away. The galvanizing on the Aqua7 is not the smooth, hard finish I had on the Aqua4. It is lumpier and seemingly softer. In any event, it is all gone and the bare surface of the chain is rusting. I have heard other reports that Maggi Aqua7 galvanizing does not stand up, and now I have first hand experience.

The most concerning part of this whole episode has been the response of the Maggi company to our issues. The premature corrosion issue was quickly acknowledged and a new chain promised… and promised and promised. But never delivered. Despite what I deem to be the best intentions of Maggi’s US supplier, I have to conclude that I have been given the runaround, perhaps in an attempt to wear us down so we let it go and buy some competitor’s chain. If you want a sense of the degree of runaround we have been given, read the correspondence in the attached file, which begins in April 2016 and ends in December 2016 with me basically saying “Bueller, Bueller?”

This is a major chain manufacturer and supplier to the marine industry. I think the boating public needs to know about the quality of the chain they are selling and the customer service that backs it up. I warned them I would write posts such as this and take other steps. This is one way in which the individual customer has some power in this internet age. So why not exercise it? Buy Maggi chain at your risk.

[zeehag]

before i left sd in 2011, i bought barrel end of good ht chain--196 ft. was awesome.. lasted with galvo intact until the first rocky bottom i anchored in... guess what--chunks of galvo now missing but the chain works great. i donot care about looks-- the rust is minimal and i rinse chain off after each anchoring.
i am not complaining but merely making a statement. sometimes the rockiness of a n anchorage will remove galvo on new chain. keep monitoring the chain and see how fast it disappears--should be quite some time, unless lesser quality steel was used in the creation of the chain in first place.
event the original chain i was replacing due to rust is not rusting faster than i can safely use it. i have kept it since 2008 and i use it occasionally as needed--no change in diameter of the links or increased corrosion.
maggi must be some ridiculously cheaply made chain for it to lose size in short time.
did it actually lose size--or was it merely showing signs of rusting.???

btw--way to go encouraging folks to call insurance over matters not insurance worthy---- increase your premiums then gripe about that in next posting. h aha ha h aha

what the hell did the ships do about anchoring with chain before galvanization was invented..hahahahaha. steel was different then also, wasnt it...could not show off your income status via use of stainless steel anchors..

[CookiesnTequila]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

I wanted to update my original post with Maggi's response to my public complaints about the chain I purchased from them. Shortly after my posting (here and in several other forums), I received a response from the Company seeking to expedite assistance to me........

I'm very happy to see this. We have the exact same problem with our Aqua 7 (100 meters of 10mm). I have not yet had the positive response that you have, and am still waiting to hear back from them. I am at the edge of my patience! They should not be taking this long.

I have another very serious problem with the Aqua 7. We switched from 12 mm G4 to 10 mm Aqua 7 last February. We have a 57kg anchor. Maggi (and others) advertise that the higher strength chain is a great way to reduce weight (which is important to us on a cat), yet after a very painful year, I do not believe it works, at least not with this combination of light chain/heavy anchor. The chain jumps off the gypsy when under heavy load (like snubbing up when it sets fast). We have been working all year (and spent in excess of 2000 euros) with a Maggi distributor to correct this problem to no avail. The jumping is very dangerous - over 1000 of this cost was to repair damages cause by the jumping.

I too will let everyone know if they step up to the plate to correct this. And, I will get very vocal on the forums if they don't, which I have resisted until right now!