Eyes for dock lines....

[The Garbone]

Just tossing this out there.

I just bought my boat and am in the process of getting things in order. This weekend I want to make some new dock lines.

Reading "Knots, Splices and Ropework" by Hyatt Verrill 1919' he states that an Artificial Eye is stronger than a spliced eye. Looking at all the sources on the internet it seems that the knot of choice is the Spliced eye. Is this due to the whipping required on an artificial eye?

It is really not that important but I am curious, I myself plan on using the artificial since I like the look of the whipping.

[Vasco]

I don't put eyes in my docklines. Unnecessary.

[cabo_sailor]

That's a pretty old reference so he is referring to 3 strand and natural fibers. I'd suggest updating your library to include Brian Toss. Personally I just splice in an eye and leave it at that. Three strand is the easiest to splice but with a bit of practice double braid is not too bad. Generally I use 3 strand for dock lines and double braid for rigging.

Rich

[Bash]

Originally Posted by The Garbone

Reading "Knots, Splices and Ropework" by Hyatt Verrill 1919' he states that an Artificial Eye is stronger than a spliced eye. Looking at all the sources on the internet it seems that the knot of choice is the Spliced eye. Is this due to the whipping required on an artificial eye?

That book was written 20 years prior to the invention of nylon. Marlinspike technique was nearly reinvented when synthetic fiber replaced natural fiber, and is now being reinvented again for high modulus line.

The reason we no longer use such splices as the artificial eye, the flemming splice, and the grafted splice is that we don't have to. They were necessary with natural fiber rope because the fibers would swell when wet, causing an unwhipped splice to loosen up when it dried out. But that's an awful slow way to make a splice, probably twice as labor-intensive as a straight eye splice.

As far as the eyesplice is concerned, everyone should splice his own docklines at least once. That will help you appreciate how cool it is to be able to run down to the chandlery and pick up pre-spliced docklines once you've chaffed through the precious ones you originally spliced.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I don't put eyes in my docklines. Unnecessary.

Concur!

[Jim Cate]

G'Day all,

For those who don't feel the need for spliced eyes in dock lines... you must have more cleats available on your boats than most folks. We routinely require terminating more than one dock line on a given cleat. If you must use a cleat hitch to attach the line there is little room left for the second one. Eyes reduce the clutter on the cleat.

And for the OP: use whatever type of splice you like, but there is a good reason for the common use of normal woven splices in 3 strand and the Sampson (or whatever the correct name is) splice for double braid. The good reason is that they have proven themselves to be effective, strong and easy to do. IMO, using a particular splice for something as important as your docklines for aesthetic reasons is a bad idea.

Oh... dock lines seldom fail from badly executed splices. It is usually due to chafe or sun exposure weakening the fibers.

Cheers,

Jim

[Kettlewell]

I'm in the no eyes school. Just tie in a bowline if you need a loop at the end, and then you can make the loop the size you need. There are so many different docking situations that you encounter while cruising that I find it is more adaptable to leave the lines with no eyes, or maybe have an eye in one end and leave the other without, like most commercial docklines come.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Oh... dock lines seldom fail from badly executed splices. It is usually due to chafe or sun exposure weakening the fibers.

Cheers,

Jim

Exactly! Eye splices are nice but unnecessary, and if you still insist on having them, as Bash noted, it's easy to just buy the pre-spliced docklines.

[HopCar]

We just ordered a new product that I think is going to be a nice addition to docklines. It's heat shrink polyester braided tubing. You slide it over the rope to the place you want to protect from chafe then heat shrink it with a heat gun or torch. A hair dryer might work but I haven't tried it. I think one size will work on ropes from 3/4" down to 3/8". It's black. When I get a chance to play with it some more, I'll let you guys know what I think.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Exactly! Eye splices are nice but unnecessary, and if you still insist on having them, as Bash noted, it's easy to just buy the pre-spliced docklines.

My goodness, it's always EASIER to pay someone else to do things for you, but IMO the ability to do simple splices should be in all cruisers bag of tricks.

And I agree that for most dock lines a spliced eye in one end only is the best arrangement. We do have one short "double-ended" dock line that we use as a aft spring when coming into a berth. If one simply drops that fixed length line over the outermost cleat on the finger it stops the boat and allows the use of prop and rudder to maintain position whilst the other lines are made fast.

Cheers,

Jim

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

My goodness, it's always EASIER to pay someone else to do things for you, but IMO the ability to do simple splices should be in all cruisers bag of tricks.

Didn't mean to suggest one should not know how to splice. I sure do, but if I wanted spliced docklines I'd just buy them. They don't cost any more.

[Kettlewell]

We just ordered a new product that I think is going to be a nice addition to docklines. It's heat shrink polyester braided tubing. You slide it over the rope to the place you want to protect from chafe then heat shrink it with a heat gun or torch. A hair dryer might work but I haven't tried it. I think one size will work on ropes from 3/4" down to 3/8". It's black. When I get a chance to play with it some more, I'll let you guys know what I think.

Sounds very interesting. Please report back. The best chafing stuff I have seen is Chafe-Pro. I have also found that nylon climbing web, the hollow kind, is a cheaper alternative that works very well.

[The Garbone]

My slip is narrow piles with no cleats. I have to back in and only have access over the stern quarter the lines will be pretty much permanent. The lines that came with the boat are oversized for my cleats and there is no spare set on the boat for transient docking.

My thought was to get 200' of achor rode and cut it up an make my own single ended lines and 3 new permanent aft lines. However, with the holiday season approaching I like the generousity of my fellow forum members. I will indeed just buy premade lines and let you generous folk send me the difference in cost, it should only be $75 to $100 and I accept paypal.

I think I will give both types of eye a go and use para cord for whipping on the artificial eye, but I may look into that chafe-pro, sounds like it will fit the bill. I like the idea of nice looking rope work myself, more traditional, sorta like buying a sailboat instead of a powerboat.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by The Garbone

My slip is narrow piles with no cleats. I have to back in and only have access over the stern quarter the lines will be pretty much permanent. The lines that came with the boat are oversized for my cleats and there is no spare set on the boat for transient docking.

My thought was to get 200' of achor rode and cut it up an make my own single ended lines and 3 new permanent aft lines. However, with the holiday season approaching I like the generousity of my fellow forum members. I will indeed just buy premade lines and let you generous folk send me the difference in cost, it should only be $75 to $100 and I accept paypal.

I think I will give both types of eye a go and use para cord for whipping on the artificial eye, but I may look into that chafe-pro, sounds like it will fit the bill. I like the idea of nice looking rope work myself, more traditional, sorta like buying a sailboat instead of a powerboat.

Not sure where you got the $75-$100 from since a 25' dock line with eye will run you only $3.00 more than just the line. That's based on 25 feet of 1/2 inch from WM. You aren't trying to over charge us are you?

[The Garbone]

I just bought 150' of 1/2 3 strand on Amazon for $54 with free shipping (prime) . Need about 100' for my transient lines and about 50 or so for my 3 permanent lines due to the setup of my slip. Best I could find 1/2 preterms was about $30. 30x7=$210 so actually I am give everyone a holiday discount of $155.