Fitting Anchor on Bow Roller...Ideas?

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Vasco

That strange rope is what's left of his snubber after it snapped. Probably not long enough for the conditions. They had guests aboard and the guests got seasick. All chain, 45 or 46 Gulfstar.

I would think being scared witless and seasick would put them off sailing for life.

It does not look a bundle of laughs.

The snubber, or what is left actually looks 'boat length' - maybe long enough but not big enough diameter for the conditions - Delfin's answer, using one thin one and one thick one (the latter cuts in when the wind really gets up,, seems appropriate. But isn't hindsight wonderful

Jonathan

[Vasco]

My snubber is about forty feet long and I vary the actual length depending on the conditions. I use 5/8 three strand nylon. 39' boat, about 18,000 lb. fully laden.

[noelex 77]

The C&C 99 was made with a high tec construction (E glass and epoxy) and the designers did all they could to minimise weight. The bow roller was optional hence the lid design that does not shut over the rode.

The anchoring arrangement is not ideal, but there is also no reason why it cannot be made to work. I cruised for several years on a boat without a bow roller and anchored in some adventurous places.

Storing the anchor in the anchor locker, chocks on deck, pulpit, or bow roller are all options. If you use the latter check there is no possibility of it damaging the low furler. Get out the tape measure and see what will fit. If trying to fit in the anchor locker the Spade is worth considering as it is smaller than most of the other top notch anchors. If trying to fit on the bow roller the less deep shank of the Mantus may fit better.
Rocna have drawings on their website that allow for construction of a cardboard anchor that would be a good starting point.

When anchoring take the load via a snubber, or bridle as Jonathan suggested using the bow cleats rather than the lightly constructed anchor roller.

[brianc]

@JonJo - the leads run back to horn cleats on both sides. I've asked Tartan for max load information so hopefully I can get it. I'm pretty sure the cleats are in solid glass (non-cored) backed with stainless plates.

I think the bridle as you suggested is a good idea to get the load off the roller, you guys have me a little worried now ;-)

Maybe I'll just buy a Rocna at West Marine, see if it'll fit in the locker, then return it...that might solve the storage problem. Yeah, it wouldn't be a perfect arrangement, and might be a little slower to deploy than something attached to the roller, but it's the same as what I have now, and I could leave the rode attached full time.

@Vasco - I think you're right, most of the 99's I've seen have been used for racing. This one never was, or nothing serious at least.

@noelex 77 - Just working my way through the thread...maybe I don't need to buy the anchor to see if it'll fit...I'll definitely try making the cardboard version first.

Back to the bridle - would you rig it with equal tension on both cleats or use the side attached with a prussik knot as more of a snubber for the other side?

Brian

[Cotemar]

brianc,

Maybe a Mantus rail bracket would work for your anchor situation.

Mantus Anchor Bracket - YouTube

[Cheechako]

i share your concern about the furler drum. If you're doing much cruising eventually you are going to want to raise the furler.. Unfortunately that may require a sail mod also. Arghhh. But you might as well do it BEFORE you damage it with the anchor shank. The shank is probably going to ding it coming in and going out even if not stored on the roller!

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by brianc

@JonJo - the leads run back to horn cleats on both sides. I've asked Tartan for max load information so hopefully I can get it. I'm pretty sure the cleats are in solid glass (non-cored) backed with stainless plates.

I think the bridle as you suggested is a good idea to get the load off the roller, you guys have me a little worried now ;-)

Maybe I'll just buy a Rocna at West Marine, see if it'll fit in the locker, then return it...that might solve the storage problem. Yeah, it wouldn't be a perfect arrangement, and might be a little slower to deploy than something attached to the roller, but it's the same as what I have now, and I could leave the rode attached full time.

@Vasco - I think you're right, most of the 99's I've seen have been used for racing. This one never was, or nothing serious at least.

@noelex 77 - Just working my way through the thread...maybe I don't need to buy the anchor to see if it'll fit...I'll definitely try making the cardboard version first.

Back to the bridle - would you rig it with equal tension on both cleats or use the side attached with a prussik knot as more of a snubber for the other side?

Brian

Bridle, same tension both sides - then the yacht will lie centrally to the wind. Set up one side and then vary the tension on the other to suit - it should be easy. Given that the prussik side will be short it does not need to be the same type of cordage. But go for a decent length of snubber.

If the fairleads and cleats are through solid glass (and its a decent thickness - which it will be as it is at the deck/hull interface) and backed with decent SS backing plates - sounds fine to me. The load will be primarily on the horn cleats. Make sure you account for any possible abrasion and your snubbers etc will last longer.

There is a tendency to sensationalise at times and if you plan to go to South America or Alaska the comments that have been made are all entirely valid.

Try not to worry too much - just show caution, and go enjoy yourselves.

Jonathan

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by brianc

Back to the bridle - would you rig it with equal tension on both cleats or use the side attached with a prussik knot as more of a snubber for the other side?

Brian

It's been my experience that bridles seldom take the strain evenly, it might help but the strain will go from one side to the other. I think in your circumstances it will just complicate things. Don't know how those 99's lie at anchor but let's hope they don't sail a lot. By the way, have you tried to anchor yet?

As for sensationalizing, remember your ground tackle is what's between you and possibly losing the boat.

[cheoah]

Hi Brian, I agree with others - you can make that work, no big deal. Here's an idea, if you aren't anchoring too much, but want to be properly equipped when you do:

Get the Mantus. You can disassemble it in short order, and hopefully store it in your anchor locker. This seems like a great application for a modern anchor design you can disassemble. You probably don't even really need the roll bar for occasional anchoring, especially if you have a good second to set if the weather picks up. Have a wrench and ratchet set up for the purpose and the 4 bolts should come in and out quickly.

A fortress will also break down and stow, and make an exceptional backup to your mantus. Might even fit in the locker, but doubt it. You'll want a bigger one to serve that purpose and they are pretty long.

With this setup, you may even get away with one smaller than the 35 like Vasco suggested. Even a 25 for occasional anchoring, paired with a section of chain 30' long might do it. The idea of mousing with cable ties for short term is good, wire for weather event or longer term.

Definitely take your rode off the roller once deployed and lead through fairleads to cleats. You can just tie a rolling hitch if you want to have a bridle-like connection, but maybe the prussik is a better approach. You can just lead the anchor rode back alone to one cleat for the type of overnights you're talking about, keep it simple. Good to have options though.

Don't know anything about your boat, and what "light" means, or how much windage. The Mantus 25 may have enough weight and surface area for what your doing, with the 35 being a conservative option, yet maybe more of a chore to weigh than you know...

[Vasco]

I don't see the need for a snubber with nylon rode. Just have good chafing gear.

The boat displaces less than 9500 lbs. Even a Rocna will do.

[noelex 77]

If the bow cleats are inadequate a long snubber let back to stern cleats, or winches, can sometimes work well. In strong wind you need a long snubber (for stretch) anyway.

Its worth experimenting a bit some boats sit a bit steadier when the snubber leads from one side of the bow, rather than on a bridle system. This increases the average windage, but does sometimes reduce the sailing at anchor, so can reduce the important peak loads.

[Vasco]

I am lost here. Do folks actually put snubbers on nylon rode? Is this a back-up procedure so that if the snubber lets go you have the anchor line to rely on? The OP has a C&C99, essentially a racing boat. I do not think he is contemplating all chain. At most he'd have 30 feet or so.

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I am lost here. Do folks actually put snubbers on nylon rode? Is this a back-up procedure so that if the snubber lets go you have the anchor line to rely on? The OP has a C&C99, essentially a racing boat. I do not think he is contemplating all chain. At most he'd have 30 feet or so.

I've attached a rolling hitch before to nylon to try and prevent sailing at anchor, but no, I fully agree that just his nylon rode led to a cleat would probably be fine if it is backed sufficiently. I took Noelex's post to mean that if the bow cleats weren't suitable, a snubber of types to something like a winch could work.

At less than 5 tons, a 25 lb mantus is fine, and perfect for weighing by hand with the 30' section of chain. But I'm not a BIB type, and nor does this boat appear to be outfitted for such

[Vasco]

My CS36M sails like crazy at anchor. When it starts honking the only way to reduce the sailing is to set a second anchor in a "V" configuration. Worked quite well. I did this to stop my neighbours from freaking out. Also less strain on the gear.

[brianc]

Given that the prussik side will be short it does not need to be the same type of cordage. But go for a decent length of snubber.

@JonJo - So it sounds like a snubber in front of the a prussik or rolling hitch to further reduce load on the cleats? [Edit: Maybe not necessary as other threads have mentioned.]

@Vasco - Yes, I've anchored for lunch (couple hours) a dozen times or with the Fortress and only had one issue when a shell was caught in the flukes, we were dragging a bit (slowly) and just pulled it up and reset it. My main concern was for overnight (tide shifts) as well as having a second anchor if the need arose. As far as sailing around on anchor, we've so far seemed to swing with other boats around us but I don't know enough to say anything more than that, it was relatively call most of the times.

@cheoah - The Fortress 16 does fit in the locker, I think the roll bar might be the fit problem with the Mantus, but we'll see I guess. 'Light' is just under 10,000 lbs.

Obviously there will have to be some experimentation but this has been great input.

Brian