General consensus on Ultra Anchor

[GRIT]

Ultra.

I commend you on your participation in this forum. And thank you for the clarification; but as a full time cruiser, anchoring in many bottoms, I'd like to advise you in the most positive way, the following:

Full time cruisers will sometimes find themselves in anchorages, where anchors will not be able to dive deep, as yours is designed to do. In such places, I have an impossible time imagining any substitute for size and weight. There are times when all your anchor can do is pile up rubble ahead of itself, to hold the boat. Remember that photo of the Ultra, where it just plowed a trough? A smaller ultra would have been a poor choice in that case, yes? A larger Ultra, in the same situation, would have held even better than the one in the photo; Yes?

I understand you are saying that the 45kg Ultra can generate as much resistance to force, as the 70kg anchor he has now. I'm willing to believe it's possible, in the right circumstances. But we don't always have the right circumstances to make this happen.

These are the things a full time cruiser must plan for, with their anchor choices.

Please take this post in the positive manner, in which it was intended. I have 25 years of cruising under my belt, from Canada to Trinidad, and from Ireland to Cape Verde. That's not to say I have more experience than you, or anyone, but I'm no virgin either.

It really would be magic, to find a 45kg anchor to be as reliable as a 100kg anchor of the same type/brand. But, if it's not as reliable, it has no business on his cruising boat. If it is as reliable, then the table is faulty, and you may as well offer the 45 right from the start.

Simi 60 is cruising, and would never consider risking his boat, just to test an anchor. I think the offer of a 45kg for his boat is overreach, and I can't imagine anyone, with a boat his size, thinking otherwise. I understand he has fitment issues with the larger Ultra, but that doesn't make the, 2 sizes, smaller Ultra just as good.

Your offer to forum members, is an amazing one. It's so refreshing to see someone put their money where their mouth is. Thank you for your participation.

Peace.
Paul.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Ultra.

I commend you on your participation in this forum. And thank you for the clarification; but as a full time cruiser, anchoring in many bottoms, I'd like to advise you in the most positive way, the following:

Full time cruisers will sometimes find themselves in anchorages, where anchors will not be able to dive deep, as yours is designed to do. In such places, I have an impossible time imagining any substitute for size and weight. There are times when all your anchor can do is pile up rubble ahead of itself, to hold the boat. Remember that photo of the Ultra, where it just plowed a trough? A smaller ultra would have been a poor choice in that case, yes? A larger Ultra, in the same situation, would have held even better than the one in the photo; Yes?

I understand you are saying that the 45kg Ultra can generate as much resistance to force, as the 70kg anchor he has now. I'm willing to believe it's possible, in the right circumstances. But we don't always have the right circumstances to make this happen.

These are the things a full time cruiser must plan for, with their anchor choices.

Please take this post in the positive manner, in which it was intended. I have 25 years of cruising under my belt, from Canada to Trinidad, and from Ireland to Cape Verde. That's not to say I have more experience than you, or anyone, but I'm no virgin either.

It really would be magic, to find a 45kg anchor to be as reliable as a 100kg anchor of the same type/brand. But, if it's not as reliable, it has no business on his cruising boat. If it is as reliable, then the table is faulty, and you may as well offer the 45 right from the start.

Simi 60 is cruising, and would never consider risking his boat, just to test an anchor. I think the offer of a 45kg for his boat is overreach, and I can't imagine anyone, with a boat his size, thinking otherwise. I understand he has fitment issues with the larger Ultra, but that doesn't make the, 2 sizes, smaller Ultra just as good.

Your offer to forum members, is an amazing one. It's so refreshing to see someone put their money where their mouth is. Thank you for your participation.

Peace.
Paul.

Thanks for your comments Paul.

We don’t recommend the UA45/100 for a 70 tonnes 60’ High Profile Power Boat. Our website is www.ultramarinewest.com . We will fix the calculator in our Europen distributor’s website ASAP, and I will be back with the confirmation.

I thank you for digging into this and help me realize that they have been using a broken calculator there.

So the recommended ULTRA Anchor size for Simi 60 is the UA80/176. He can go one size bigger UA100/220 or one size smaller UA60/132. I am okay a full-time cruiser having a similar boat goes with the UA100/220, or he might think that our recommendation is conservative enough and take the UA80/176 as we recommend.

I wouldn’t usually recommend even the UA60/132 for such a boat, but I got confused as you did with the kgs and pounds at a point and he had been telling that he couldn’t find anything better than the 70kg anchor he had so our test offer wouldn’t make sense to him. So I offered him to test the UA45/100 against his 70kg roll bar anchor to see if it performs as good so that he could appreciate our design, but when I look back, that was a mistake. He is not here to appreciate anything at all. I will stop now from making it personalized.

Once again, thanks for giving me a chance to clarify that.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Ultra.

I commend you on your participation in this forum. And thank you for the clarification; but as a full time cruiser, anchoring in many bottoms, I'd like to advise you in the most positive way, the following:

Full time cruisers will sometimes find themselves in anchorages, where anchors will not be able to dive deep, as yours is designed to do. In such places, I have an impossible time imagining any substitute for size and weight. There are times when all your anchor can do is pile up rubble ahead of itself, to hold the boat. Remember that photo of the Ultra, where it just plowed a trough? A smaller ultra would have been a poor choice in that case, yes? A larger Ultra, in the same situation, would have held even better than the one in the photo; Yes?

I understand you are saying that the 45kg Ultra can generate as much resistance to force, as the 70kg anchor he has now. I'm willing to believe it's possible, in the right circumstances. But we don't always have the right circumstances to make this happen.

These are the things a full time cruiser must plan for, with their anchor choices.

Please take this post in the positive manner, in which it was intended. I have 25 years of cruising under my belt, from Canada to Trinidad, and from Ireland to Cape Verde. That's not to say I have more experience than you, or anyone, but I'm no virgin either.

It really would be magic, to find a 45kg anchor to be as reliable as a 100kg anchor of the same type/brand. But, if it's not as reliable, it has no business on his cruising boat. If it is as reliable, then the table is faulty, and you may as well offer the 45 right from the start.

Simi 60 is cruising, and would never consider risking his boat, just to test an anchor. I think the offer of a 45kg for his boat is overreach, and I can't imagine anyone, with a boat his size, thinking otherwise. I understand he has fitment issues with the larger Ultra, but that doesn't make the, 2 sizes, smaller Ultra just as good.

Your offer to forum members, is an amazing one. It's so refreshing to see someone put their money where their mouth is. Thank you for your participation.

Peace.
Paul.

Hi again,

As promised, we fixed the calculator in our European distributor’s website https://www.ultramarine-anchors.com/

Once again, I thank you so much for taking our attention that issue so we could fix it, and I apologize for the extra confusion coming from it.

[Charlespeck]

Though it's highly unlikely I shall ever be an ultra customer I must commend you guys for your efforts here. Keeping your focus under attack is an attribute of good seamanship & and exquisite people skills.
I am glad to meet an honourable and earnest anchor company representative. I am enjoying this thread.

[GRIT]

Well done, that'll remove some of the confusion around anchor sizes.

It's a pleasure to hear from you on this forum.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Panope]

I have weighed the Ultra anchor on the same scale that was used to measure numerous other anchors. I'll list the data for each using this format: Anchor name, claimed weight, measured weight, tip weight, and tip to total weight ratio.

Ultra, 46lbs., 46 lbs., 16 lbs., 35%

Mantus, 44 lbs., 40 lbs., 20 lbs., 50%

Excel, 48lbs., 50 lbs., 10lbs., 20%

Manson S., 45 lbs., 47 lbs., 11 lbs., 23%

Spade, 44 lbs., 44 lbs., 18.5 lbs., 42%

Sarca, 33lbs., 34 lbs., 11 lbs., 33%

Bruce, 44 lbs., 44lbs., 14 lbs., 32%

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by Panope

I have weighed the Ultra anchor on the same scale that was used to measure numerous other anchors. I'll list the data for each using this format: Anchor name, claimed weight, measured weight, tip weight, and tip to total weight ratio.

What does it tell you? Unless you saw a tip off, you cannot measure it’s weight without significant systematic uncertainty.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

What does it tell you? Unless you saw a tip off, you cannot measure it’s weight without significant systematic uncertainty.

I have noticed some correlation between 'tip to total weight ratio' and the aggressiveness that anchors set.

Steve

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Panope

I have noticed some correlation between 'tip to total weight ratio' and the aggressiveness that anchors set.

Steve

Which is eminently logical.


Sharpness of the tip would seem to also matter for harder substrates. My 55kg Rocna was quite blunt and was noticeably harder to set than my 45kg Spade. The Ultra tip is similar to the Spade but looks even sharper.

[Panope]

I would like to modify my statement, above, by adding the word "initially".


I have noticed some correlation between 'tip to total weight ratio' and the aggressiveness that anchors initially set

This change reflects the fact that in my testing, some anchors lost some of their setting performance after becoming fouled with seabed.

Steve

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Which is eminently logical.


Sharpness of the tip would seem to also matter for harder substrates. My 55kg Rocna was quite blunt and was noticeably harder to set than my 45kg Spade. The Ultra tip is similar to the Spade but looks even sharper.

I can confirm that the Ultra tip is a bit sharper than the Spade.

Steve

[Muaddib1116]

Hi Steve, when you measure the tip weight, do you set the other 2 points of the anchor on something the same height as the scale?

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Hi Steve, when you measure the tip weight, do you set the other 2 points of the anchor on something the same height as the scale?

Yes. All three points were at the same height for all "tip weight" measurements.

That said, an anchor lying on a seabed might not remain level due to one part of the anchor "sinking" more than another. Most anchor designs have some extra metal added near the "ear" of the fluke to prevent that area from sinking. The size and shape of this surface varies, making "table top" analysis that much more difficult.

Steve

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

What does it tell you? Unless you saw a tip off, you cannot measure it’s weight without significant systematic uncertainty.

The issue is not how much the tip itself weights but what downward load is at the tip when resting flat or on its side. You can figure where the center of mass is relative to the tip analytically or you can measure weight at 3 support points.
I don’t know what Panopes methodology is but it can’t be worse than cutting the tip off.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The issue is not how much the tip itself weights but what downward load is at the tip when resting flat or on its side. You can figure where the center of mass is relative to the tip analytically or you can measure weight at 3 support points.
I don’t know what Panopes methodology is but it can’t be worse than cutting the tip off.

Tip weight and center of gravity coordinates are completely different parameters with a very weak correlation that is more dependent on the anchors' topology than the mass concentration at the tip. Pressure that the tip exerts on a support surface is a more fundamental parameter.