General consensus on Ultra Anchor

[Muaddib1116]

I mean, you literally ask why is it more complex, and in the same sentence explain how the Spade is a simpler build and ask why Ultra can't make it simpler as well...

The Spade has a hollow tapered box section for the shank that is not welded to the fluke. The fluke is bent and welded plate, with an open pocket filled with lead.

The Ultra is a fully welded hollow shank with internal supports and a fully encapsulated lead filled tip. Putting aside the more complex shape of the Ultra shank and fluke, that alone is more complex. Does it have to be? I don't know. Why can't it just be the Spade design? because then it wouldn't be the Ultra design.

I really don't understand this type of argument. They are making a product they are clearly proud of. It has a price point that enough people are willing to pay for them to stay in business. The fact that they don't want to compromise or change their design just to grab a larger part of the market is their decision. It's not an attack on people who can't or won't pay for it.

[Ultra Marine West]

As you see here, the shank explosion is not an exaggeration.

On the other hand, calling ULTRA a limited version of another anchor design sounds interesting because there are tens of boat builders in the World using that limited version instead of the original you called. Especially while that original costs them less in SS.

The ULTRA with its curved tip works way better than this anchor especially at shorter scope. So the limitation might work the other way around.. .

Anyways this discussion is pulling me in to make negative comments about the other anchors which I don't want at all so I will leave the rest to you.

I see that we could already answer the original question in the best possible way.

[noelex 77]

The Ultra is a very interesting anchor. Firstly, it is the only anchor in the world that can be called beautiful, although not as beautiful as my mermaid as she dives down to inspect an example .



The design is similar to the Spade, but in many ways it is a refinement of this design. Given the excellent performance of the steel Spade I expected great things from the Ultra.

I would love to see more examples of the Ultra, but so far my assessment is that it is a very good anchor, but not quite as capable as the Mantus (M1), Rocna, and Steel Spade.

Below is just one example of a performance I found slightly disappointing. This Ultra was slowly draggng (you can see the puffs of sand stirred up as this anchor moves) in a reasonably soft substrate. To its credit, it remained buried and engaged with the seabed, but was neverless slowly creeping back. This type of slow creep is very commonly seen in convex plow anchors in softer substrates and is caused primarily by the limited area and convex nature of the fluke, but it should not be seen in these modern concave anchors without severe provocation.

Often the owner is unaware of any problem, but it is a sign that the anchor is really struggling. This was at a relatively short 3:1 scope and is only one example, but the substrate was fine and excellent anchors should be extremely reliable in these conditions. Even an occasional fail when there is no reasonable explanation is of concern.



Normally with any new design I like to spend many hours looking closely at the anchor on dry land. Factors such as how much tip weight is present, how readily the anchor adopts the correct setting position etc, as well as some physical measurments such as the fluke area (which does not always correspond with manufacturer’s claims). Unfortunately, I have been unable to do this with an Ultra, which is a pity as I think this provides some insight into the strength and weakness.

Perhaps I am being a little hard on the Ultra. It is obviously a very good anchor, much better than the vast majority of models available. It is beautiful, exquisitely manufactured, will never need re-galvanising (yeah) and will fit many boats where roll bar models are not suitable, but given the high cost it is easy to assume exceptional performance. My impression so far has been of very good, but not quite up to the highest standard when judged just on its performance alone. Perhaps my view will change with more exposure. If you want to assess the performance for yourself (and I would strongly encourage this) ,’ do a search for “ultra” in this thread and make up your own mind.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post2182417

[Muaddib1116]

Those are some nice pictures. Can you tell us what the boat size and displacement for that was and what the anchor size was?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I mean, you literally ask why is it more complex, and in the same sentence explain how the Spade is a simpler build and ask why Ultra can't make it simpler as well...

The Spade has a hollow tapered box section for the shank that is not welded to the fluke. The fluke is bent and welded plate, with an open pocket filled with lead.

The Ultra is a fully welded hollow shank with internal supports and a fully encapsulated lead filled tip. Putting aside the more complex shape of the Ultra shank and fluke, that alone is more complex. Does it have to be? I don't know. Why can't it just be the Spade design? because then it wouldn't be the Ultra design.

I really don't understand this type of argument. They are making a product they are clearly proud of. It has a price point that enough people are willing to pay for them to stay in business. The fact that they don't want to compromise or change their design just to grab a larger part of the market is their decision. It's not an attack on people who can't or won't pay for it.

I don't think you understood my post. I was rather praising the Ultra business model, not dissing it at all.

[Muaddib1116]

My mistake, I guess that wasn't clear to me.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The Ultra is a very interesting anchor. Firstly, it is the only anchor in the world that can be called beautiful, although not as beautiful as my mermaid as she dives down to inspect an example .



The design is similar to the Spade, but in many ways it is a refinement of this design. Given the excellent performance of the steel Spade I expected great things from the Ultra.

I would love to see more examples of the Ultra, but so far my assessment is that it is a very good anchor, but not quite as capable as the Mantus (M1), Rocna, and Steel Spade.

Below is just one example of a performance I found slightly disappointing. This Ultra was slowly draggng (you can see the puffs of sand stirred up as this anchor moves) in a reasonably soft substrate. To its credit, it remained buried and engaged with the seabed, but was neverless slowly creeping back. This type of slow creep is very commonly seen in convex plow anchors in softer substrates and is caused primarily by the limited area and convex nature of the fluke, but it should not be seen in these modern concave anchors without severe provocation.

Often the owner is unaware of any problem, but it is a sign that the anchor is really struggling. This was at a relatively short 3:1 scope and is only one example, but the substrate was fine and excellent anchors should be extremely reliable in these conditions. Even an occasional fail when there is no reasonable explanation is of concern.

Normally with any new design I like to spend many hours looking closely at the anchor on dry land. Factors such as how much tip weight is present, how readily the anchor adopts the correct setting position etc, as well as some physical measurments such as the fluke area (which does not always correspond with manufacturer’s claims). Unfortunately, I have been unable to do this with an Ultra, which is a pity as I think this provides some insight into the strength and weakness.

Perhaps I am being a little hard on the Ultra. It is obviously a very good anchor, much better than the vast majority of models available. It is beautiful, exquisitely manufactured, will never need re-galvanising (yeah) and will fit many boats where roll bar models are not suitable, but given the high cost it is easy to assume exceptional performance. My impression so far has been of very good, but not quite up to the highest standard when judged just on its performance alone. Perhaps my view will change with more exposure. If you want to assess the performance for yourself (and I would strongly encourage this) ,’ do a search for “ultra” in this thread and make up your own mind.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post2182417

Isn't that behavior similar to that reported for Spades at short scope?



I have seen somewhere what seemed to me decently well documented claims that Spades do less well at very short scopes than Bruce and some others -- probably some weakness of geometry, if that is true. If so, then this may be a common weakness of Spade and Ultra.


I've used various Spades over decades and never noticed any particular problem at short scope, but that doesn't prove anything. I do anchor at less than 3:1 from time to time and so far never had a problem but, again, that doesn't prove anything.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Isn't that behavior similar to that reported for Spades at short scope?



I have seen somewhere what seemed to me decently well documented claims that Spades do less well at very short scopes than Bruce and some others -- probably some weakness of geometry, if that is true. If so, then this may be a common weakness of Spade and Ultra.


I've used various Spades over decades and never noticed any particular problem at short scope, but that doesn't prove anything. I do anchor at less than 3:1 from time to time and so far never had a problem but, again, that doesn't prove anything.

I've seen mention of the Vulcan being hard to set at short scope, so it's definitely possible that it's a weakness of that general category of anchor design.

[Muaddib1116]

I'm a little curious how well the Mantus M1 works with the roll bar removed.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I'm a little curious how well the Mantus M1 works with the roll bar removed.

If I had to guess, it would hold fine if you could get it set. But setting would likely be a problem, as I can picture it trying to dig in laying on its side and not tipping upright.

Personally, I think it's the best of the rollbar designs, as the larger rollbar is less susceptible to clogging. And rollbar clogs seem to be the majority of the issues with other rollbar anchors.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

My mistake, I guess that wasn't clear to me.

Cheers.


My post was intended to say -- surely the Ultra could have been designed to be capable of being made in a galvanized version if the makers had wanted to, but that in my opinion they just didn't need that market niche, as they've done so well with the high margin stainless niche.



As Noelex said -- the Ultra is absolutely the bling champion of the anchor world, and that's probably what sells them, to a much greater extent than setting performance. I have a friend with a 100' superyacht who needs new ground tackle, and I recommended Ultras just because they would look so right on his flashy gin palace. They are much cooler looking than any other anchor on the market, and also perform excellently -- a very good product with specific appeal to a specific market with deep pockets.

[Muaddib1116]

That makes a lot of sense and I agree completely. Thanks for clarifying.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

.

Given the difference in vegetation levels between the two photos, I assume these are separate examples? Or is it the same anchor after dragging a considerable distance? The upper photo also shows a fairly long "setting" furrow - was it also at short scope?

[Muaddib1116]

I was a little confused as well. I followed the link he gave to the anchor setting photo thread and the story there seemed to imply that these are pictures of a neighbor's anchor? Also that the bottom might have been sand over rock or something.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

They are compared to any other new gen anchor in galv.

Here in Australia, a 27kg Manson supreme is $799
An ultra in the same size is $3120.

Take that out to a 150 to 17Olb which we use and there is a quite large difference in price, about 4 anchors worth in fact.

It is very unfair to compare the price of two brands of anchor when one is manufactured from stainless steel and the other from galvanised steel. Comparing other brands of stainless steel anchor, the prices are similar.