Ground Tackle Upgrade

[brianc]

I'm thinking about 'upgrading' my ground tackle but have a few questions.

I currently have a Fortress 16. 55 feet of what I think is 1/4 inch chain (can't tell if that or 5/16 ths) and I don't know the grade. The chain is attached to 120 feet of 1/2 inch double braided nylon line. I'm assuming it's all original (2002) but I know it wasn't used much. All of that attached to a C&C 99 (33 feet, ~9,500 lb displacement, no windlass.)

I want to get either a Rocna or a Mantus because I'm not comfortable overnighting on the Fortress with the tidal changes in the PNW (re-setting.) I use it as a lunch hook with no issues but I haven't overnighted on it yet. I also want to extend the rode to about 350 feet total. I don't know if either will fit on the bow roller so I'm leaning toward the Mantus because it comes apart.

So the questions...
1. 33 or 35 lb anchor with no windlass...is that reasonable? Or is that too big of an anchor (sort of in between on the sizing charts.)

2. How can I determine if the anchor will fit on the roller?

3. Should I re-use the chain? From what I've read, 55 feet is plenty for the boat and it looks like it's in good shape. The sizing chart on the Mantus site puts me between 1/4 and 3/8ths.

4. Is 1/2 inch line enough? Again, it seems like I'm on the border between 1/2 and 5/8ths based on the sizing chart.

5. What's a good place to buy 300 feet of nylon line? Is there a big difference in quality? Ebay has much more reasonable prices than any marine store I've bee to...just wondering about the quality.

6. Is it worth making the change at all?

[N4712]

Originally Posted by brianc

I'm thinking about 'upgrading' my ground tackle but have a few questions. I currently have a Fortress 16. 55 feet of what I think is 1/4 inch chain (can't tell if that or 5/16 ths) and I don't know the grade. The chain is attached to 120 feet of 1/2 inch double braided nylon line. I'm assuming it's all original (2002) but I know it wasn't used much. All of that attached to a C&C 99 (33 feet, ~9,500 lb displacement, no windlass.) I want to get either a Rocna or a Mantus because I'm not comfortable overnighting on the Fortress with the tidal changes in the PNW (re-setting.) I use it as a lunch hook with no issues but I haven't overnighted on it yet. I also want to extend the rode to about 350 feet total. I don't know if either will fit on the bow roller so I'm leaning toward the Mantus because it comes apart. So the questions... 1. 33 or 35 lb anchor with no windlass...is that reasonable? Or is that too big of an anchor (sort of in between on the sizing charts.) 2. How can I determine if the anchor will fit on the roller? 3. Should I re-use the chain? From what I've read, 55 feet is plenty for the boat and it looks like it's in good shape. The sizing chart on the Mantus site puts me between 1/4 and 3/8ths. 4. Is 1/2 inch line enough? Again, it seems like I'm on the border between 1/2 and 5/8ths based on the sizing chart. 5. What's a good place to buy 300 feet of nylon line? Is there a big difference in quality? Ebay has much more reasonable prices than any marine store I've bee to...just wondering about the quality. 6. Is it worth making the change at all?

I don't think the actual weight of the anchor matters, it's going be getting it unset.

[djmarchand]

Well, it is good that you recognize that the Fortress won't handle reversing currents very well. I know that a Rocna will. Don't know about the Mantus. I don't think disassembly is very useful.

Also consider that in a reversing current anchoring situation, your rode can wrap around your keel with potentially disastrous results- keel sawing through the nylon. The only way to avoid that is with all chain rode.

In the PNW you will be anchoring in moderate deep water- 20-30', right?. So you will need about 200' of all chain rode to anchor with 6:1. It can be done without a windlass, but not easily. Use 1/4" HT chain and a 15 kg Rocna (about 33 lbs). That will be a lot of weight to lift, about 75 lbs at the deepest, but can be done if you are reasonably fit.

But do consider a windlass.

David

[motion30]

I could hand pull a 45lb manson with 3/8 chain but I needed gloves. Dont worry about breaking it free, drive over it. Oh...I am 55 but in decent shape

[onestepcsy37]

i regularly hand pull my 45lb manson supreme with 3/8" all chain rode, but i anchor in under 20 feet of water all the time so my vertical lift is never more than about 50 lbs. i also use a chain stopper so i can take breaks between pulls.

i think a 35lb rocna or manson supreme would be ideal. if you're going cruising get all chain rode; if just a sunday sailor needing a lunch hook a bit of chain with rope should be enough. 5/16" chain.

[El Pinguino]

Oh goody , another anchor thread... that other one was slowing down a bit.

A windlass? I used to typically anchor in 20 foot or less.... manual windlass... first time we anchored in 20 metres my son said that was it... no more frd hand work for him until I bought a steam windlass.. said he wasn't going to burger his back just because I was tight.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Oh goody , another anchor thread... that other one was slowing down a bit.

A windlass? I used to typically anchor in 20 foot or less.... manual windlass... first time we anchored in 20 metres my son said that was it... no more frd hand work for him until I bought a steam windlass.. said he wasn't going to burger his back just because I was tight.

Join the club - you never mentioned you were also a Scot

We could have an anchor thread based on safe minimalism, few would have any experience - and that would only encourage them

Jonathan

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Join the club - you never mentioned you were also a Scot

Jonathan

Yup... keel laid in Grangemouth... launched in Falkirk... maiden voyage to Oz 2 years later.....

Back to the OP.... I'd be happy using ( and have used ) a long nylon rode but by choice it would be multiplait rather than 3 strand...

[JonJo]

We lived for a couple of years next to the, by then, derelict RAF air field at Grangemouth. We then moved over to the north of the Forth, lived in Clackmannanshire for 15 years. But you would have been too young to remember much.

We have used 3 strand (and still have it), but its a devil to stow. Its like trying to get a game fishing rod into a small box.

Jonathan.

[NewMoon]

Originally Posted by djmarchand

In the PNW you will be anchoring in moderate deep water- 20-30', right?. So you will need about 200' of all chain rode to anchor with 6:1. It can be done without a windlass, but not easily. Use 1/4" HT chain and a 15 kg Rocna (about 33 lbs). That will be a lot of weight to lift, about 75 lbs at the deepest, but can be done if you are reasonably fit.

But do consider a windlass.

David

It may depend on where in the PNW you go cruising. In BC and SE AK there are many coves where you'll need to be able to anchor safely in 40-50 feet, and take into account a tidal range of sometimes more than 20 feet. Fairly often we need to be comfortable anchoring in 55-65 feet (at high tide), especially where the bottom slopes up very steeply to the outflow of a river.

We don't usually need more than 4 or 5 to 1 scope in a reasonably protected cove, but I don't think I'd enjoy retrieving a 15 kg anchor and all-chain rode by hand very often in that sort of depth, even with only 1/4" chain. Our rode is 46 feet of 1/4" HT spliced to 300 ft of 1/2" three-strand, with a 10kg Rocna. That and a windlass works great for our 11,000 lb 26-footer.

[svHannabel]

1/2" three strand line w/ 1/4" proof coil/BBB seems about the right minimum for overnight anchoring with your boat, in my estimation. If you go with HT/G4 chain, 1/4" is probably just fine. We have a 33lbs Bruce and 35lbs Delta on our 34-footer with 200' of 1/2" line and 40' of 5/16" BBB chain. I'm able to pull back on deck no problem without a windlass.

[thinwater]

Three thoughts:

a. The Manson and Rocna sites will give you all the sizing info. 35pounds sounds right (I have a Manson Supreme 35 on a 34' catamaran).

b. New chain, because you are going the keep the Fortress as a back-up and Kedge. Really.

c. Ask if ANYONE in your family has back trouble. If yes, get a windlass and go all-chain; much cheaper than the doctor bills. This has more to do with genetics than fitness. And pushing a button is really nice.

[brianc]

Thanks all for the info!

@El Pinguino - everyone needs an anchor thread...

@djmarchand - I didn’t think about the rode getting tangled on the keel…is it common?

I was planning to upgrade for a trip from Seattle to Desolation Sound and back late next spring (probably 3 weeks.)

It looks like I’d need to be able to anchor (on average, based on some other threads here) in 40-50 feet so 350’ total should be enough.

Eventually I’d like to get up to Alaska but not sure when I’ll have the time to do that…damn job keeps getting in the way.

@thinwater - no back trouble. The people going with me (presumably) are all mid-30’s and fit overall. It’ll probably be me retrieving the anchor most of the time though.

Anchoring stern-to, is it common to use 4:1 or 5:1 vs 7:1? I’m calculating based on 7:1 at 50 feet. I’ve actually never anchored stern-to so I probably need to get out and practice around Seattle before getting in to a crowded anchorage. I’d rather not become someone's blog story.

And what about a good place to buy line?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by djmarchand

...your rode can wrap around your keel with potentially disastrous results- keel sawing through the nylon. The only way to avoid that is with all chain rode.

Dunno.... I had a nylon rode on my previous boat... never had that problem.... met someone a few years back that had managed to get his chain around his saildrive.... with dis arse trous results... ended up on beach with hole in boat.... I have no real idea how he achieved it...but achieve it he did

Buying nylon? Last time I bought some it was from Defender ... something like this for dock lines Marine 8 Strand Plaited on Sale