How Close Is Too Close?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Scorpius99eh

I guess you guys anchor in MUCH more crowded anchorage than I do. Pity.

Actually, eventually you'll foul your own prop with the float, when you drift over it in the night. I believe that is actually the greater risk.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What do "rights" have to do with it? Nothing.

It's a fact, and not an opinion, that anchor buoys create massive interference with other boats in a crowded anchorage. If you don't care about that; if you are happy to think that later boats are obligated to deal with whatever foolish thing you do, having come in earlier, then, well --

I guess you can say that everyone has the "right" to be a donkey . . . .

It's an opinion, not a fact. Water is wet, that's a fact. How other people should act, that's an opinion. Everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an a$$hole.

I've learned something in life and I'm going to try to pass it on to you and a few others here; Unless you are wearing a badge and a gun, trying to change how other people act is pointless and frustrating. They are going to do what they want to do no matter how you feel about it.

It's easy to be a bully on the Internet. Real life is a different story. Most people in real life aren't going to be impressed if you call out to them or ride your dinghy over to their boat and explain to them how you think they should operate or anchor their boat.

Understand your place in the world and life will go much better for you.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rwidman

It's an opinion, not a fact. Water is wet, that's a fact. How other people should act, that's an opinion. Everyone has an opinion, just like everyone has an a$$hole.

I've learned something in life and I'm going to try to pass it on to you and a few others here; Unless you are wearing a badge and a gun, trying to change how other people act is pointless and frustrating. They are going to do what they want to do no matter how you feel about it.

It's easy to be a bully on the Internet. Real life is a different story. Most people in real life aren't going to be impressed if you call out to them or ride your dinghy over to their boat and explain to them how you think they should operate or anchor their boat.

Understand your place in the world and life will go much better for you.

Good grief

Pay attention, please, to exactly what it was, which I stated to be a fact. It's a true fact. How you choose to behave, is up to you.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[markpierce]

Some boats here are close enough, and some are too close.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Some boats here are close enough, and some are too close.

He he he ;-)

Super funny!

Cheers,
b.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Good grief

Pay attention, please, to exactly what it was, which I stated to be a fact. It's a true fact. How you choose to behave, is up to you.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

What are you now, Charlie Brown?

Yes, you stated something to be a fact. I get that. The problem is, it's not a fact, it's just your opinion. You need to understand the difference.

You also need to learn the difference between reading a post while thinking about how to argue with it and reading a post and trying to understand it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Yes, you stated something to be a fact. I get that. The problem is, it's not a fact, it's just your opinion. You need to understand the difference.

I feel like we’ve entered the world of “alternative facts” .

The “fact” is that if you use anchor buoys you will occupy more space in an anchorage than if you didn’t. The “fact” is this will reduce the number of boats that can safely anchor in that area. The “fact” is these buoys will also be a potential hazard to others moving around the anchorage.

Now, your opinion is that you have the right to use an anchor buoy regardless of how it may impact others. I suggest you also consider your responsibility to others — but I realize suggesting people also have responsibilities along with their so-called rights is somehow passé these days.

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I've learned something in life and I'm going to try to pass it on to you and a few others here; Unless you are wearing a badge and a gun, trying to change how other people act is pointless and frustrating. They are going to do what they want to do no matter how you feel about it.

A bit of a cynical opinion, eh?

Discussions on this forum have change my mind on numerous occasions. In fact(?), I don't use an anchor float because of this forum.

Come to think about it, I'm not sure why you are here (with 3,000 + posts!) if it isn't to learn or teach. Can't learn if you're not open to new ideas and there is no point in passing on knowledge if you don't think anyone will listen!

[JPA Cate]

Good morning, everybody,

Well, there was a time last year when, anchored in a river, our chain became fouled in something in the water. Had we buoyed the anchor, all we would have lost was about 80 ft. of chain, instead of the chain plus the Manson Supreme. There was another boat on the river, but miles upstream. We just didn't think of it.

We did successfully buoy our anchor for an expected cyclonic passage. Others thanked us, because in those circumstances, they really wanted to be sure to not foul their anchor on our chain. There were two other boats, but room for at least 10.

So, what I say, is yes, if it is crowded, and the bottom is free of hazards as far as you know, do not buoy the anchor. However, if you're anchoring in a river, which floods often, and brings trees down, AND on the outside of a bend, I would recommend buoying it as cheap insurance. In a non-populous area, why not?

As with many decisions, your behaviour should be guided by the conditions at the time and place, with consideration for one's own self and for others.

Ann

[Scorpius]

With respect to comments re anchor buoys:
1. You guys obviously anchor in FAR more crowded anchorage than we commonly do here in British Columbia. Much the pity.
2. Many coves and bays on this coast have, in the past, been use for logging operations and there may be steel cables, boom chains, and other debris on the bottom. It is wise to have an anchor trip (read buoy) line to trip the anchor should it be fouled. I've used mine a number of times.
3. Bouy / trip lines should be weighted at intervals so they go straight down. This should minimize (although not eliminate) the chances of them fouling anyone - and I very much doubt it would flip a dinghy at night or any other time. Besides you shouldn't be speeding through an anchorage. Slow down and smell the kelp!

[Mike OReilly]

Scorpius99eh, as Ann and others have said, there are certainly valid reasons to use a trip, and hence a buoy. I too have cruised in areas where deadheads, slash and general old logging debris is a real issue. In those circumstances I have used a buoyed trip line. I also use stern anchors and sometimes tie off to shore when appropriate.

The point is you use these techniques when needed. If it’s needed all the time then use them all the time. Use them as needed, not as a general rule, certainly not just to mark your anchor. Of course if you anchor alone all the time then it’s not an issue, but most people don’t have that luxury.

BTW, I use a small block tied to the buoy, and run the line through it back down to the anchor, with the other tied to a weight. This keeps the buoy vertical all the time, right above my anchor. I think this is what you are describing as well.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Simonsays

it's also totally fine to just tie off alongside and have the bigger boat worry about all the anchor stuff, if you are riding a P-boat in the Navy

A very kind Swedish 50' yacht offered us a place alongside last year when I couldn't find a spare visitors mooring ball on the river Dart. Being single handed made life a little interesting with the current running but all went smoothly. Turned out their dinghy engine was kaput and they couldn't get ashore, offered them mine so they could go for a drink in the rather quaint 18th century local pub. One good turn.......

Pete

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Scorpius99eh, as Ann and others have said, there are certainly valid reasons to use a trip, and hence a buoy. I too have cruised in areas where deadheads, slash and general old logging debris is a real issue. In those circumstances I have used a buoyed trip line. I also use stern anchors and sometimes tie off to shore when appropriate.

The point is you use these techniques when needed. If it’s needed all the time then use them all the time. Use them as needed, not as a general rule, certainly not just to mark your anchor. Of course if you anchor alone all the time then it’s not an issue, but most people don’t have that luxury.

BTW, I use a small block tied to the buoy, and run the line through it back down to the anchor, with the other tied to a weight. This keeps the buoy vertical all the time, right above my anchor. I think this is what you are describing as well.

As usual I have similar opinions to yours but just one difference. If I feel like an anchor trip line is needed I prefer the technique used by Dockhead. Instead of floating a buoy on the anchor I attach the trip line to my anchor chain, with enough length to bring the trip line on board with line to spare at max high tide. That way you have a trip line if needed but you don't have a float on the water with all the potential problems that might incur.

A couple of problems with buoys that haven't been mentioned in this thread. Worst, someone catches your buoy in their prop and pulls your anchor leaving you with the possibility of dragging. Also I have read comments from members in past discussions on buoys that said later arrivals had pulled their anchor buoy and tied off to it, thinking the buoy was a mooring.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by skipmac

As usual I have similar opinions to yours but just one difference. If I feel like an anchor trip line is needed I prefer the technique used by Dockhead. Instead of floating a buoy on the anchor I attach the trip line to my anchor chain, with enough length to bring the trip line on board with line to spare at max high tide. That way you have a trip line if needed but you don't have a float on the water with all the potential problems that might incur.

A couple of problems with buoys that haven't been mentioned in this thread. Worst, someone catches your buoy in their prop and pulls your anchor leaving you with the possibility of dragging. Also I have read comments from members in past discussions on buoys that said later arrivals had pulled their anchor buoy and tied off to it, thinking the buoy was a mooring.

Agreed on the added dangers of a trip line buoy. Too many negatives for general use.

And this is why I like CF … I keep learning new ideas. I’ve never tried yours and Dockhead’s approach. I’ll give it a try next time. Are there any concerns or issues about getting the trip line tangled with the anchor rode? I assume you’re still attaching the trip line to the forward side of the anchor, correct?

[Jim Cate]

Mike, the Dockhead method works for fouled anchors, but not necessarily for fouled chains. When we lost out anchor in the Gordon river last year, it was the chain fouled about 75 feet up from the anchor. Likely snarled in a big old Huon Pine on the bottom. Another time in Skeleton Bay the chain wrapped around a big boulder and then was wedged inextricably in a crack. That time I was able to put on a tank and recover the anchor, but not most of the chain involved. A trip line directly to the anchor would have enabled recovery of the anchor in both cases (I think), and without the diving.

When it is the anchor itself that is fouled, the DH method is fine, and does eliminate any worry about the buoy.

Oh... the time Ann mentioned where we buoyed the anchor whilst awaiting a cyclone, I did so because I'd set a LOT of chain... all 280 feet that we had on board. In ~25 feet of depth, we were a long way from the anchor, and I wanted both others and myself to know where it was. Seemed reasonable at the time, still does today!

Jim