How Close Is Too Close?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

I do have a slightly different take on the arguments against anchor buoys and the danger to dinghies in the dark. First, the dinks, or at least their operators, need to keep a lookout, the sea is full of the unexpected. Second, should we sink the buoys in mooring fields because of the dangers to dinghy traffic? Obviously, not. Appropriate caution applies to all, no unnecessary buoys, but do not proceed faster than you ability to see ahead.

Yes. Not to flog a dead horse, but I have no problem with buoys in an anchorage UNLESS, and this is a big UNLESS, they have polypro line floating on the surface. That is definitely something up with which I will not put. We have enough of that nonsense with the crab and lobster pots around. Properly weighted lines under buoys I can negotiate. But that's just my take.

As far as having a badge and a gun, that really made me smile thinking of a really good ol' friend from many years ago. I think I posted about him before. He had a Downeaster and he'd regularly visit the local islands. He would become completely unhinged if someone came in and anchored too close or in an incompetent way. He carried a genuine Samurai sword. On one occasion (at least) he had a gentleman plant his anchor, and boat, far too close, and he was not inclined to move. My friend brought out his Italian... passion... well he'd be ok if said "temper," and that sword and started swinging it from the bowsprit threatening to relieve the startled offender of his family jewels. The gentleman thought better of his situation and moved his boat. However if anyone dared a dinghy ride over to chat with my buddy they would discover he was not at all a raving lunatic, but one of the most jovial and kind-hearted guys you'd ever meet. Sure miss that guy.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Don C L

...My friend brought out his Italian... passion... and started swinging it from the bowsprit

If some guy pulled out his "Italian passion" and started swinging it in my direction I’d get the heck out of there too

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If some guy pulled out his "Italian passion" and started swinging it in my direction I’d get the heck out of there too

Yeah, perhaps I should have re-worded that before submitting!!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

I do have a slightly different take on the arguments against anchor buoys and the danger to dinghies in the dark. First, the dinks, or at least their operators, need to keep a lookout, the sea is full of the unexpected. Second, should we sink the buoys in mooring fields because of the dangers to dinghy traffic? Obviously, not. Appropriate caution applies to all, no unnecessary buoys, but do not proceed faster than you ability to see ahead.

You are right.

However, the point is, they do not. Or at least very many of them do not. And when they catch your buoy with their outboard, we are not talking about 'dangers to dinghy traffic' but rather dangers to your anchor and your security: for they will lift the anchor, chop the line off and power away. And you are there with your anchor possibly dislodged. The danger is to you, not to the dinghy.

Also mind this is very common to see boats arrive after dark and roam the anchorage looking for a good flat spot. YES, again, this is not good practice. But it IS the practice and now not only your anchor can get dislodged but also the line can stop the latecomer from powering. They will end up on top of you, no anchor, and the two of you drifting onto whoever is next down the line.

So much as you are 100% right in respect of how things should (and not) be done, the daily (and more often nightly) life teaches us otherwise.

Cheers,
b.

[thinwater]

Several other things I find amusing:

1. Trip line floats of good size that are pulled under water by a short line. Lightens the anchor a good 10 pounds (though still with original area).

2. Advice in a sailing book (The Complete Anchor Manual) that shows a pulley under the float, with a kellet attached, to keep the slack out of the trip line. Again, it is lifting the anchor. This also requires a large float.

3. Finally, any practice that includes attaching the trip line to the top-of-the-shank hole (Space and Rocna have holes in the heel of the fluke, and roll bars are OK). Most anchors come up level using the shank hole, often still hooked to the chain or tree. In fact, many anchors do not have a valid tripping hole.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

As you suggest, it is often best to move, but most boating people are willing to help. Go over and talk to them. Simple.

Scopes need to be similar in a crowded anchorage and swinging over some else's anchor float is a potential hazard for both boats. So some cooperation is necessary.

One must remember he is talking about the land of the gun.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Several other things I find amusing:
............

You are easily amused.

Trip lines have their place and if properly constructed and deployed, they are not a danger to anyone.

You are certainly free to be amused by them, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't use them when they think they are appropriate.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You are easily amused.

Trip lines have their place and if properly constructed and deployed, they are not a danger to anyone.

You are certainly free to be amused by them, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't use them when they think they are appropriate.

I wasn't critisizing the practice, just poor practice. I've used them a few times in very snaggy areas with a lot of downed trees.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yes. Not to flog a dead horse, but I have no problem with buoys in an anchorage UNLESS, and this is a big UNLESS, they have polypro line floating on the surface. That is definitely something up with which I will not put. We have enough of that nonsense with the crab and lobster pots around. Properly weighted lines under buoys I can negotiate. But that's just my take.

As far as having a badge and a gun, that really made me smile thinking of a really good ol' friend from many years ago. I think I posted about him before. He had a Downeaster and he'd regularly visit the local islands. He would become completely unhinged if someone came in and anchored too close or in an incompetent way. He carried a genuine Samurai sword. On one occasion (at least) he had a gentleman plant his anchor, and boat, far too close, and he was not inclined to move. My friend brought out his Italian... passion... well he'd be ok if said "temper," and that sword and started swinging it from the bowsprit threatening to relieve the startled offender of his family jewels. The gentleman thought better of his situation and moved his boat. However if anyone dared a dinghy ride over to chat with my buddy they would discover he was not at all a raving lunatic, but one of the most jovial and kind-hearted guys you'd ever meet. Sure miss that guy.

I did not mention anywhere on CF ever, at least within my memory, a badge and a gun, so I do not believe that portion of the response is directed to me. As far as polypro line, it has a place, but not for securing anchor buoys.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

I did not mention anywhere on CF ever, at least within my memory, a badge and a gun, so I do not believe that portion of the response is directed to me. As far as polypro line, it has a place, but not for securing anchor buoys.

Oh yeah, that badge and gun reference was from someone else, rwidman. Sorry I should have made that clear.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by downunder

One must remember he is talking about the land of the gun.

Originally Posted by Don C L

Oh yeah, that badge and gun reference was from someone else, rwidman. Sorry I should have made that clear.

I've been following this thread. It was rwidman and he did say, "badge and gun" which applies worldwide.

[Scorpius]

Wow! I guess the community has made it perfectly clear what the think of anchor buoys. Quite the discussion. Mea culpa. I stand corrected and suitably chastised.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The problem is, not everyone agrees on what are good habits and bad ideas. Some people seem to have a hard time understanding that there are many different boats out there, many different parts of the world and many different boating styles. They have a difficult time understanding that what works best for them might not be appropriate for someone else.

The worst part, of course, is that they seem to feel that anyone who doesn't agree that their way is best is ignorant or worse. They seem to think that they are God's gift to boaters and the absolute authority on any boating subject.

They need to understand that boaters (everyone, really) will read how they think it should be done but in the end, they are going to do it the way that works best for them.

I posted it once but I'll post it again: Unless you're wearing a badge and a gun, trying to control other people's behavior is doomed to failure and it's going to be very frustrating for you.

In the real world, if someone wants to use a trip line or seven to one scope when anchored, there is nothing you can do about it. Deal with it or move to another anchorage.

The problem is... common sense obviously isn't as common anymore.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

on both points. (And don’t use a buoy unless you need a trip line). I usually make a point of asking boaters who are already anchored how much rode they have out. And pay attention to rope vs chain rode. In light airs boats with rope can behave quite a bit differently than all-chain.

Oh come on.... let him use an anchor buoy... I mean how bad can it be... He's not going to attach it with 16mm line!!...
when you get tangled in it simply start your engine, slip into gear and let the shaft do the rest. The next fine calm day dive under and remove any remnants.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The problem is... common sense obviously isn't as common anymore.

Define "common sense". It means doing it the way you think it should be done, correct?