How much chain..really?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well... my anchor is 176 lbs... you’re welcome to come over and haul it up by hand and tell me how that keeps you fit I’ll even give you the handle for manual operation of the windlass

When hes finished with yours he can come and do my 150lber and 600ft of 13mm chain.
I'll put on the beers, be fun to watch

[MVNightWatch]

How much money is enough?
Chain (and line) the same.
Unless you have a chain stretcher, more is always better to a certain extent. 😊
And as most other authors have brought out, context is all. If you’re in a rocky environment all chain. If you’re in a Sandy environment like I am, I have 30 feet of chain with 200 feet of line. We cruise sandy, shallow, Lowcountry waters. I’d take chain to Maine!

[sailr69]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

A world cruiser needs 400’ of chain but for east coast and bahamas 100’ will be more than enough. West coast I doubt it but no direct experience.

who in their right mind would try to anchor in 2000 feet of water assuming a scope of 5:1 400 feet of anchor chain by it's own weight would required much stronger anchor rode. also would need much more electric muscle to get it all aboard.( talk about anchor castles). somewhere in the area of 768 lbs weight in the bow of a sailboat seems to be a severe cause of hobby horsing.\
I should just keep my mouth shut regarding other peoples input. going silent now

[sailr69]

Originally Posted by alctel

I had 60' of chain and the rest rope on my 36' boat for years and years, and sailed all over the BC coast up towards and Alaska and down the west coast of the island.

Was totally fine, I only switched to all chain when I was going to the tropics as apparently the chances of your rode being sliced in two by coral is very high.

Otherwise, I would have just stayed with the 60' of chain. I definitely notice the performance hit with an extra 200' of chain in the bow, buries the bow in heavy seas upwind a lot more

Ill probably switch back to a mixed rode when I get back to BC

it is illegal to anchor in coral, big fine as coral needs to be protected

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailr69

who in their right mind would try to anchor in 2000 feet of water assuming a scope of 5:1 400 feet of anchor chain by it's own weight would required much stronger anchor rode. also would need much more electric muscle to get it all aboard.( talk about anchor castles). somewhere in the area of 768 lbs weight in the bow of a sailboat seems to be a severe cause of hobby horsing.\
I should just keep my mouth shut regarding other peoples input. going silent now

Yes, silence would be advised as your math is completely ridiculous. You do not have the slightest affinity with anchoring when you can make your fingers type that 400’ of chain is only useful for anchoring in 2,000’ of water. In this case, I recommend marinas.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by sailr69

who in their right mind would try to anchor in 2000 feet of water assuming a scope of 5:1 400 feet of anchor chain by it's own weight would required much stronger anchor rode. also would need much more electric muscle to get it all aboard.( talk about anchor castles). somewhere in the area of 768 lbs weight in the bow of a sailboat seems to be a severe cause of hobby horsing.\
I should just keep my mouth shut regarding other peoples input. going silent now

I probably should keep my mouth shut too, but I'm really confused here.

I can't find anyone who said/wrote they "anchor in 2000 feet of water."

I can't figure out what you mean by "400 feet of anchor chain by it's own weight would required much stronger anchor rode." Huh?

And isn't the very definition of a windlass "electric muscle?" I wouldn't want to cruise without lots of "electric muscle." What's the problem with that?

I really want to know.

So here's my situation. I'm in PNW and recently upgraded my 5/16 G43 HT chain to 500'. At 1.3lbs per foot that is 650 lbs. Add 90 lbs for the anchor and 150 lbs for secondary anchor and rode, and we have 890 lbs of ground tackle. Then add 70 lbs for two propane tanks and we're pushing 1000 lbs, which is 1/2 a ton.

My 20 ton ketch can handle 1/2 a ton in the bow without hobby horsing, but I did shift some weight around to make that happen- all of the heavy stuff from the bow area (mostly tools in the V berth area) was relocated to balance the weight and restore the waterline to where it was before.

We love the PNW and love living on the hook and love anchoring in remote anchorages that are too deep for most others. It's worth it to us.

So, any more wisdom or judgments about all this to share?

P.S. BTW, regarding the dreaded"castling," we have a deep anchor locker but our 500' of rode will castle to the top occasionally and require a push to continue raising anchor. Not a problem for me. The benefits of my setup outweigh the minor inconveniences.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by sailr69

who in their right mind would try to anchor in 2000 feet of water assuming a scope of 5:1 400 feet of anchor chain by it's own weight would required much stronger anchor rode. also would need much more electric muscle to get it all aboard.( talk about anchor castles). somewhere in the area of 768 lbs weight in the bow of a sailboat seems to be a severe cause of hobby horsing.\
I should just keep my mouth shut regarding other peoples input. going silent now

Well, Sailr69, nobody anchors in 2000 ft. Assuming you're talking about the West Coast and the Pacific Ocean, most people anchor near shore where it is not so deep.

And with 400ft of chain you don't need a stronger rode, since all chain means no (rope) rode.

Finally, with 400ft of chain you don't need a lot more electrical power since you're only lifting the portion which is not lying on the seafloor, say about 100ft or so at worst.

BUT, I like that you recognize the performance hit you take with all that weight in the bow. Too few sailors on this forum acknowledge that.

Think about keeping that 786 lbs up there, plus changing up your anchor size to one of the new style anchors which apparently require 80-100 lbs, plus leaving the previous anchor also in the bow roller, another 45-60lbs.

People dismiss the effect of that 900lbs in the bow by saying they like to sleep at night, as if without that weight they could not. They are also the folks who always motor going upwind because they've learned from experience that the inertia of all that weight up there makes dealing with waves an awful experience.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by sailr69

who in their right mind would try to anchor in 2000 feet of water assuming a scope of 5:1 400 feet of anchor chain by it's own weight would required much stronger anchor rode. also would need much more electric muscle to get it all aboard.( talk about anchor castles). somewhere in the area of 768 lbs weight in the bow of a sailboat seems to be a severe cause of hobby horsing.\
I should just keep my mouth shut regarding other peoples input. going silent now

A world cruiser has to be ready for any situation. After all 400 feet of chain will work equally well in 2000 or 5000 feet of water.

As posted your math is a very wrong.

As far as weight in the bow it depends both on the boat and where the chain locker is located. Boreal for example has the windlass aft and the chain drops near the mast.

On my boat - 27' - my windlass is back from the bow and the chain drops under the V-berth. 250' of G43 and a Rocna 15 kg. The 188 pounds of chain replaces a water tank that weighed over 200 lbs when full. No hobby horsing.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

...On my boat - 27' - my windlass is back from the bow and the chain drops under the V-berth. 250' of G43 and a Rocna 15 kg. The 188 pounds of chain replaces a water tank that weighed over 200 lbs when full. No hobby horsing.

Very good solution in my opinion.

[Jim Cate]

I suspect that the "2000" feet was a typo that was supposed to be 200 feet... as evidenced by his saying something about use of the 400 foot rode at 5:1 in such a case.

But of course, when anchoring deep, 5:1 scope isn't required.

And for the record, damn few of the cruisers that we've met over the years have carried that much chain. 250-300 feet is more common, and that has sufficed for us for many years and miles and anchorings.

YM (and chain requirements)MV

Jim

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I suspect that the "2000" feet was a typo that was supposed to be 200 feet... as evidenced by his saying something about use of the 400 foot rode at 5:1 in such a case.

But of course, when anchoring deep, 5:1 scope isn't required.

And for the record, damn few of the cruisers that we've met over the years have carried that much chain. 250-300 feet is more common, and that has sufficed for us for many years and miles and anchorings.

YM (and chain requirements)MV

Jim

Jedi, who has a 64 ft boat, advocated that.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I suspect that the "2000" feet was a typo that was supposed to be 200 feet... as evidenced by his saying something about use of the 400 foot rode at 5:1 in such a case.

Jim

400’ of chain in 200’ of water is 2:1 , not 5:1. The math done was 5 x 400 = 2,000’ water, calling the idea of 400’ chain ridiculous.

That said, I expect this just to be another troll going after me

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

400’ of chain in 200’ of water is 2:1 , not 5:1. The math done was 5 x 400 = 2,000’ water, calling the idea of 400’ chain ridiculous.

That said, I expect this just to be another troll going after me

Yeah, you may have the correct interpretation of his vague post. I wouldn't loose much sleep over it... you have exhibited a pretty thick skin in the past, Nick, so a troll's arrows should just bounce off!

Jim

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

400’ of chain in 200’ of water is 2:1 , not 5:1. The math done was 5 x 400 = 2,000’ water, calling the idea of 400’ chain ridiculous.

That said, I expect this just to be another troll going after me

I'm removing my chain when in the Chesapeake. Don't need it there with the muddy, silty bottom.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I'm removing my chain when in the Chesapeake. Don't need it there with the muddy, silty bottom.

Sure. You can also keep the chain and remove the anchor, as the chain alone will hold in that. Or just tie a bucket to the end to make sure