How much chain..really?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Oh for real? Well now I feel like a fool. Can you send a link so I can educate myself? I've been buying into the (apparently) myth for forever! This is like that time I finally realized "purposely" was a real word and not just a super common misspelling of "purposefully"

No need to feel like that... it was the old school thought for a long time. Steve Dashew, the designer of our boat, was one of the first to change over and reduce chain weight while increasing anchor weight. We have a 176lb anchor on 3/8” chain

When you search the forum there are hundreds of threads where this comes up. Here is some other info: https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php

[JebLostInSpace]

Wow, that was a fascinating read! It's suddenly perfectly clear that the benefits of heavy chain all disappear as soon as the rode is yanked tight - which of course is the only time you really care. Time to re-think my ground tackle approach again...

[Group9]

We carry 250 feet of 5/16's now (because I got a good deal on it). But on our last trips to the Bahamas, we only carried 185 feet and never needed more.

It just so much depends on where you boat and how deep of water you have to anchor in (assuming you want an all chain rode).

We switched to all chain in 2009 when we bought a boat with a windless. All chain just works so much better for us.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Your boat is 30', not 50'. So skip the 50' exercise and concentrate on your boat.


Next think about WHERE YOU anchor.


If you expect to be ever in a dire situation, use all chain or long chain, otherwise OK to use less chain + more rope.


Do not use Spectra. Fat Spectra is very expensive and very slippery. Use something easy to grab - say 3/4 multi-plait polyester (others use nylon, which is nearly the same thing).


an EXAMPLE, from our boat:


Boat 26', 4 tons loaded.
Typical anchorages: Caribbean, 3-20 meters deep.
Chain attached: 30 meters. (planned to become 50 meters - when I find quality chain)

Rope tail: 25 meters.

Chain stored: 30 meters.
Rope stored 100 meters.



Mind again: this boat, these anchorages.


Before hitting offshore big way, our boat did with just 10 meters of chain, smaller anchor and about 30 meters of rope. Again, different anchorages, different rode.



Cheers,
b.

[emoji15] Isn’t 3/4” line a bit big for a 30’ boat?

[slug]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Wow, that was a fascinating read! It's suddenly perfectly clear that the benefits of heavy chain all disappear as soon as the rode is yanked tight - which of course is the only time you really care. Time to re-think my ground tackle approach again...

A heavy chain also stores energy , catenary , and causes the boat to tack and yaw more at anchor

You only need the recommended chain size for your boat

Extra size doesn’t do you any favors

[Westcliffe01]

There is a pretty detailed article written about anchoring on passagemaker
https://www.passagemaker.com/technic...agement-part-1


A couple of images from that article:
https://www.passagemaker.com/.image/...-14323-pm.webp


https://www.passagemaker.com/.image/...-14340-pm.webp



https://www.passagemaker.com/.image/...-14403-pm.webp


So in any high wind and wave situation (survival mode) more scope is generally going to be better.


An anchor riding sail will also help in keeping the bow pointed into the wind and reduce shock loads if the hull tends to lie sideways to the wind as a result of the relationship of windage aloft vs the keel layout.
https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Stop...EaAlSNEALw_wcB


https://www.sailrite.com/Product%20I...t-Anchor_2.jpg

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

An anchor riding sail will also help in keeping the bow pointed into the wind and reduce shock loads if the hull tends to lie sideways to the wind as a result of the relationship of windage aloft vs the keel layout.
https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Stop...EaAlSNEALw_wcB


https://www.sailrite.com/Product%20I...t-Anchor_2.jpg

Exactly, for most sloops and cutters a riding sail is like having a size bigger anchor. A ketch has more aft windage naturally so is okay without

[Palarran]

I used to have 100 meters of 12mm chain. My windlass could only lift up about 80' of chain plus the 55 kilo Rocna. In Turkey we had a problem anchoring and tying to shore as our anchor wouldn't touch bottom even if we were only 100' off shore. We also had times where we would have to drag the anchor along the sea bottom to shallower water in order to retrieve it. We changed out the chain to 120 meters of 10mm G70 in Marmaris and installed a newer, more powerful windlass. Now I can retrieve at least 100' of chain + anchor, haven't had a situation where we had more depth than that. I love it.

In the Bahamas, haven't had to use more than 1/4th of the chain, no matter what the wind conditions. I'm personally not a big proponent of laying out more than 5 to 1 as for us, it causes more yawl to the boat.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

World cruisers that survive carry all chain, we spent 1,500 nights at anchor. At times in the Pacific my 330 ft was barely enough. Anchoring in 50+ knots on a rope that could chafe through would not allow my wife and I to sleep the night through! My wife just said I should mention he sleeping pill...the 122lb rochna.

Exactly!
The bottom line (pun intended), is to carry as much chain as the chain lockers will accommodate.

In the Pacific you have deep anchorages, same in Indonesia & PNG

You will need that ground tackle.

Also consider a deep water emergency drifting onto a Lee shore in moderate seas. (Example a jammed rudder hard over)

I have a joining link ready to attach the bitter ends of both anchor chains together.
You put out your primary anchor then join bitter end to the secondary so that all chain is let out on one anchor as you drift towards the Lee shore.

Extreme scenario but worth remembering and preparing for that option

[barnakiel]

No, the bottom line is not to 'carry as much as your boat can.


The bottom line is to carry as much as is is called for by the kind of sailing you do.


Not everybody is a world cruiser, quite the contrary, very few boats are.


b.

[Mike OReilly]

This discussion is similar to the one around anchor size. For those who cruise in known areas with predictable conditions and anchoring bottoms, then you can size your rode (and anchor) to exactly what is needed.

For those (of us) who cruise in more variable areas where anchorage conditions can vary widely, and bottoms range in depth, substrate, and risk of chafe, then it makes sense to maximize our anchoring system so that it will cover the widest possible range of conditions and situations.

The right answer for you depends on where you sit on this spectrum.

[Tillsbury]

The other advantage of carrying a fair amount of chain, of course, is that you can end to end it when it starts to look a little craggy at one end

[JPA Cate]

For world cruising, some anchorages are 80 ft. deep. Some of them have coral heads that come up near to the surface. The use of all chain is huge protection against chafe on rope rode. When such chafe occurs, the boat may take off whichever way the tide is going or the wind is blowing. The anchor may be lost, although if you keep a record of where you anchor, you may be able to dive and get it back. Places with wind against the tide anchoring situations have led to boats getting their rope rodes wrapped around their keels, with chafe causing dislocation to beaches. (I'm thinking of La Paz, BCS, Mexico.)

So, anchoring strategy really depends on the cruising grounds' bottoms, and weather and tide conditions. Do they have rock or coral reefs? jagged metal debris on the bottom? wind against the tide?

In the San Francisco Bay area, for Jim's 30 footer, we used a short length of chain with rope rode back. It was only when we went to leave for destinations where there were deep anchorages with many boats that we went to all chain. 3:1 of all chain will hold the boat where you'd use 6:1 or 7:1 for rope with a bit of chain. So, the swinging circles are lots tighter, and that's better for sharing space.

Ann

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

The other advantage of carrying a fair amount of chain, of course, is that you can end to end it when it starts to look a little craggy at one end

Then you end up with a pile of rusty chain in the locker and rust all over your decks.
Ask me how I know.
Never again will I end for end.

[thomm225]

So the PO of my boat left his boat near here after he cruised it 2 years from Massachusetts to Florida and the Bahamas.

The boat had 5 anchors onboard when I found it.

The main anchor was a 20 lb CQR with 40' of heavy chain and 250 rope rode. The backup was a Bruce with 40' heavy chain and 300' rope rode.

Since this setup appeared to have worked for the PO, I decided why change it out especially until I decide to become a world cruiser.

So for the past 9 years this main CQR anchor and it's chain and rode have been a savior for me and the boat in some pretty bad situations and very exposed anchorages from the mouth of the bay North. (Depths 5' - 35')

Twice in the last few days, I was anchored just ahead (until the tide changes at least) of a couple big, expensive catamarans, and the last thing you want is to come off anchor and slam into one of those

Another time just off the beach and pier. Same deal, you don't want to end up on the beach or being woken up slamming into a fishing pier.

It's so important to be able to trust your anchoring equipment especially when the squalls are coming thru at bedtime and you are laying there in the dark listening.

I've replaced one large shackle on this gear in the past 9 years, and it's still looking pretty good.