How to specify shore lines?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think the physics say that your anchor will be pulled out in gale force side winds, and your boat will be dashed on the rocks and you and your crew will die.

Golly, I guess I've just been lucky.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Golly, I guess I've just been lucky.

Or bolder. Or more skillful. Or something.

Lying to shore ties in gale force winds from abeam?

Why?

[Benz]

Samson Ropes' Easysplice is a braided, floating, very lightweight polyolefin that's perfect, IMO, for this use.
I've never used shorefasts--whether in katabatics in Newfoundland, Greenland, or the NWP, but I can see their use in limited-swing places.
Second the suggestion of short strops (not chain, but re-purposed dyneema) for slinging trees, rocks, etc. Useful on sharp-cornered wharves, as well.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Benz

Samson Ropes' Easysplice is a braided, floating, very lightweight polyolefin that's perfect, IMO, for this use.
I've never used shorefasts--whether in katabatics in Newfoundland, Greenland, or the NWP, but I can see their use in limited-swing places.
Second the suggestion of short strops (not chain, but re-purposed dyneema) for slinging trees, rocks, etc. Useful on sharp-cornered wharves, as well.

I used them a lot in the Aegean and Adriatic where it's customary and you don't want to swing around when others are not.


Otherwise people use them where the bottom slopes steeply -- to keep the boat uphill from the anchor. Or if the wind is blowing offshore -- the anchor won't hold downhill.

[Flobble]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I used them a lot in the Aegean and Adriatic where it's customary and you don't want to swing around when others are not.


Otherwise people use them where the bottom slopes steeply -- to keep the boat uphill from the anchor. Or if the wind is blowing offshore -- the anchor won't hold downhill.

Exactly the use cases I'm focused on. 50 knot gales may not be common in the region (though it can definitely still blow), but at that point I'm likely heading for the nearest marina.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Or bolder. Or more skillful. Or something.

Lying to shore ties in gale force winds from abeam?

Why?

Why? I have no idea. That's the position Skip Novak has put himself at risk of in that video.

I would suggest the topography in Iceland is different to that in Chile.
In Chile the object is to 'make the land your friend' and get tucked in that close that the wind can't get to you.
I've been caught out twice but that involved the wind blasting straight out of the caleta - ie from astern -at storm force, on both occasions the lines held but my masthead wind instruments were destroyed. I've never gone back to either anchorage.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I used them a lot in the Aegean and Adriatic where it's customary and you don't want to swing around when others are not.


Otherwise people use them where the bottom slopes steeply -- to keep the boat uphill from the anchor. Or if the wind is blowing offshore -- the anchor won't hold downhill.

I can absolutely see their use here--and in places with katabatics, if you can get close enough to shore--I've simply not had occasion to use them. I will carry some long bits of easy-splice or similar next time I go high-latitude; they're just not an every-day thing up there. I thought it was a worthwhile data point.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Benz

I can absolutely see their use here--and in places with katabatics, if you can get close enough to shore--I've simply not had occasion to use them. I will carry some long bits of easy-splice or similar next time I go high-latitude; they're just not an every-day thing up there. I thought it was a worthwhile data point.

Then there are Baltic shore ties. Up here it's common to use a spike you put into cracks in rocks and tie the bow off to that. Anchored from the stern. You hang a little ladder from your bow pulpit, and step right onto the shore.



It's a good way to enjoy calm summer evenings in the islands, but nobody does it in any kind of weather.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Flobble

Exactly the use cases I'm focused on. 50 knot gales may not be common in the region (though it can definitely still blow), but at that point I'm likely heading for the nearest marina.

In really bad weather I try to stay away from marinas, at least where you have to berth alongside. Much prefer my own anchor, if there is good shelter and good holding available.

[SV Coronado]

I have a 45' catamaran with two 50-meter, 18mm polypropylene lines. I wouldn't go shorter than 50m, but I haven't been in a situation where I needed more. Part of the reason may be as a catamaran, my draft is fairly shallow - I may have a different opinion with a monohull.

Chafe is the worst part of a shore tie. I like to use towing straps to go around rocks. Chain is heavy and can roll off of rocks.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017VQ8AN4

Think about how you'll get the ties to shore. Our favorite method is using a paddleboard.

[Jammer]

In a stiff offshore wind, would you not make your shore tie to the bow and set a stern anchor as a precaution against a wind shift?


I've never been to the North Sea, and am curious.

[Flobble]

Closing the loop on this, here's what I decided:

• 2x80m lengths of Southern Ropes Super-12 9mm in yellow (breaking strain 9.2T unspliced). This is a Stealth/HMPE fibre based rope little stronger than the bridle/anchor rope, and each length weighs around 5kg. I'll splice in a loop at each end.
• Stored in a bag to begin with so it can live in a locker; if that gets annoying I'll try the reel option later
• Introduce some stretch at the shore end by using a length of mooring rope around the tree/rock/fixing point, and potentially a snubber at the boat end.
• Old fire hose over the rope for chafe protection

Thanks all for your perspectives.

[SV Coronado]

The old fire hose doesn't work well (I know from experience). You need to tie around huge objects like rocks and smaller-diameter objects like trees. If you use small bits of fire hose, your expensive shore ties will inevitably chafe at some point you didn't notice. A long fire hose will make it difficult to tie around a tree or smaller object. It's also not uncommon to find your best spot to tie to be a rock slightly underwater. It's even harder in this situation to see where the line might chafe. This is why many sailors use a chain or strap that is chafe-resistant and can go around objects large and small.

I am just curious why you want an eye splice at the ends. The end that goes around the object on shore must be tied so you can release it later and pull it in from the boat. The end on the boat will have a variable length depending on the distance from shore. I don't see where you'll need to use a splice at the end of the line.

Check out the Facebook group "Med Sailing", you'll find some good advice there.

[Flobble]

Originally Posted by SV Coronado

The old fire hose doesn't work well (I know from experience). You need to tie around huge objects like rocks and smaller-diameter objects like trees. If you use small bits of fire hose, your expensive shore ties will inevitably chafe at some point you didn't notice. A long fire hose will make it difficult to tie around a tree or smaller object. It's also not uncommon to find your best spot to tie to be a rock slightly underwater. It's even harder in this situation to see where the line might chafe.

Two reasons: (1) I already have some, and (2) others do seem to have found success with this approach. I haven't tried it yet, so I'll have to learn what does and doesn't work well.

This is why many sailors use a chain or strap that is chafe-resistant and can go around objects large and small.

Indeed. May add this to my kit of parts too.

I am just curious why you want an eye splice at the ends.

Because it's easier to extend, or tie other ropes into an eye than to knot slippery HMPE in a way that's easily released. For clarity, I mean a soft loop rather than a hard eye.

Check out the Facebook group "Med Sailing", you'll find some good advice there.

Thank-you. Will investigate.

[geoffschultz]

Where are you planning on sailing?