How to strengthen chain link

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So what is different with your wildcat? You have a horizontal windlass?

Horizontal 3000#. Vessel is 40 tons. I would never consider using knock together or welded or brazed bits. I could also never manually lift a non-fitting double clevis over the wildcat. Proper chain is cheap insurance.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Horizontal 3000#. Vessel is 40 tons. I would never consider using knock together or welded or brazed bits. I could also never manually lift a non-fitting double clevis over the wildcat. Proper chain is cheap insurance.

Every link in your chain is welded.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Every link in your chain is welded.

Ohh, but that is different! They were welded by a faceless machine in a distant land, overseen by unknown QA folks, not a certified welder that you can talk to and whose competence can be personally verified.

Seriously, quality chain is good stuff, and if one is relying upon high strength alloys to make it strong enough, then brazing or welding could indeed lower the ultimate strength by altering the heat treat schedule in the affected link.

But IMO, one should not be operating that near the SWLL for any chain rode.

I guess some folks require more apparent security than others, and are unwilling to believe that the chain supply folks are accurate in rating their C-links. Strangely, they accept the ratings for the chain. Go figger...

Jim

[RaymondR]

From an engineering viewpoint there are two aspects if the chain joining issue which require attention. The first the initial strength of the join and the second the fatigue life of the join.

I have little doubt that because Crosby is an old, well established, reputable firm that the strength specification for their links are as specified and will have been arrived at by a fairly rigorous testing regime. However, when it comes to fatigue life I have doubts because of the design of the links.

To get the strength from a device whose geometry encompasses semi circular sections only half the section of a full circle requires the use of high tensile steel, a material unlikely to load share by yielding. The two sections are retained by riveting over pins which does not provide a high integrity connection from a fit viewpoint. It is highly likely that one section of the link will carry a major portion of the loading and stresses highest in the reduced sectional area of the link and consequently suffer the greater portion of metal fatigue and consequently eventual failure.

I am of the opinion that for short term use the Crosby links may be adequate but for long term reliability the welded joint is superior.

From long term experience I am a fan of the Hammerlok fittings which I believe are the superior non-welding chain joiner. I have observed many chains being broken but never a Hammerlok. Unfortunately they won't go around a wildcat.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Every link in your chain is welded.

True. And every link was preheated, post treated, stress relieved, normalized in a controlled, repeatable process determined and verified by testing. The weld material was controlled as well. It was then tumble blasted and galvanized. Machine shop-Jack in Guadalupe will do none of that.

BTW, in this case brazing is sweating together steel with softer, lower melting point metals such as brass or silver solder. I can guarantee where this chain will break if load tested.

If you need a longer chain, if the strength is important then buy a new chain.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Horizontal 3000#. Vessel is 40 tons. I would never consider using knock together or welded or brazed bits. I could also never manually lift a non-fitting double clevis over the wildcat. Proper chain is cheap insurance.

Looking at your setup, I think you can use a snubber with chain hook to pull slack in the chain to pass the link over the wildcat.

In my case, the link is beyond the 300’ mark so I have never needed it deployed yet... only did that to test it which is why I know it will pass on a vertical windlass.

40 tons wow... we’re 64’ and 25 metric tons, 27 US tons.

[Manateeman]

Hi. Let’s go back to the beginning of this subject wherein the owner of a Bene 305 wants a chain link. Then proceed to the Peerless catalog and look under double clevis links. Next, read the post by Jedi an keep in mind his vessel. I felt this should have been sufficient as I have used these links (Maxwell 3500 vertical) and suggested some additional measures with regard to the split pins.
Because I wanted to assist the original poster, I went to a local yard to examine a Bene 305. No luck so I had to work from published sources. Now, the original poster has said nothing about modifications which would strengthen the attachment points on his vessel. Given the data from Peerless, taking into account the construction of his vessel, I think it’s a reasonable conclusion that the solution put forth by Captain Jedi, was spot on. Period.
I have no doubt that somewhere there is a windlass which will not pass a double clevis or that the vessel is not equipped with something to hold or tie off the chain. The very low cost of a double clevis would justify a test run, then one could purchase a Peerless.
I have found that the scallop boats that work hard ground sailing from the port of New Bedford MA, test to failure, a vast amount of equipment. Some excellent marine equipment is available in this port. If you have a larger vessel or are voyaging far, I think the advice of the local suppliers will please you and so will the costs. No toy boat stuff.
Happy trails to you.
Mark, a peerless manatee.

[a64pilot]

Jim, I wasn’t trying to say to weld a chain, only that welding if properly done is a very acceptable substitute.
Being an old oilfield welder, I looked at some steel boats because replacing a section of plate wouldn't scare me. Actually I’d rather do that than extensive glass repair.
But if I had a steel boat, I’d certainly have had a small inverter type of Welder aboard, and with that you could do chain pretty easily.

The inverter welders are amazing, I can’t understand how they could work, they aren’t any bigger than a shoe box. Must have a short duty cycle and have to rest often or overheat?

Anyway google small inverter stick welder, they are tiny, maybe 5 or 10 lbs max and cheap.
I’ve not tried one myself but have used a mini tig welder a lot and they are magic, they don’t soft start, have to be struck like a stick machine, but that’s no big deal.

We are bidding on a house now, and if we do move into a house part time, I’ll get me one to play with as my last little Lincoln got stolen, it was at least 100 lbs and about 3ft square, needed a 220V outlet like a stove or drier and these tiny inverter welders are supposed to do everything it could and plug into a 15 amp 110V plug, so a Honda could run one.

If I had a steel boat, I’d certainly have one.

Google “small portable inverter stick welder”

Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Inverter+...f=nb_sb_noss_2

[Manateeman]

Dear Capt 64. If you google welding tips and tricks you can see all the neat welds possible with a Miller inverter welder which is what I have onboard.
I don’t weld anchor chain. I avoid anything stainless unless it’s 316 and I know where it came from. Including steel boats. I’m having trouble understanding your post. Do you feel double clevis connectors are in some way unsuitable for the original post? What is your answer to post #1 please.
All the best to you in your house hunt.
Mark, a Argon huffing Manatee.

[a64pilot]

No, all I’m saying is that I agree if properly done, that welding is an acceptable way to join chain.

I think although I’ve never done it that I could cut and open a link, close it back up in a vise and weld it back together and except for the missing zinc, you’d never know it.

Properly done, any weld is stronger than the parent material.

Honestly I haven’t ever joined anchor chain, I’m not against it, just haven’t ever had the need to, not yet anyway.
I also don’t use G70 chain, that chain it’s likely that the welding process would weaken the link you welded on. The weld should be strong if the proper rod was used, but I think you have annealed the material by welding it, and if so then you have a weak link.
We had the little Miller portable tig machines at work where we built aircraft, we would use them on the line for any welding needed there. They were great machines, but weren’t high frequency so you couldn’t do aluminum, but for SS and mild steel they were great.

Stainless is a different subject, in my opinion not for anchoring unless you just have an excess of money to waste.
There isn’t much difference between 18/8 which is 304 and 316, they are both 300 series steels so they are pretty close.

[Manateeman]

Hi. I feel like I’m stuck in a jury room with an 10 to 2 vote. Could we collectively agree to set the following aside : welding technologies, brazing galvanized metal, zinc fume illness, photos of rusty ground gear, post welding metallurgy, windless issues. Please.
The original poster asked for help on a single issue and I believe for $10 he could try a cheap double clevis to see if this will work on his windlass.
If it does, and one can read the Peerless data sheets, his next issue might be finding an equally strong attachment point, with minimal work and modification to his vessel.
If you disagree with me, please explain specifically why.
Happy trails to you.
Mark, an unchained manatee

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Horizontal 3000#. Vessel is 40 tons. I would never consider using knock together or welded or brazed bits. I could also never manually lift a non-fitting double clevis over the wildcat. Proper chain is cheap insurance.

13mm or 16mm chain?

We weigh in at 65 tonne (71 ton) on a 60 fter
Have a horizontal Maxwell 3500
My wife can lift chain off the chain wheel easily if I spool some out to take the load off.
Lock the chain or put snubber back on to take the load and save the fingers

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Hi. I feel like I’m stuck in a jury room with an 10 to 2 vote. Could we collectively agree to set the following aside : welding technologies, brazing galvanized metal, zinc fume illness, photos of rusty ground gear, post welding metallurgy, windless issues. Please.
The original poster asked for help on a single issue and I believe for $10 he could try a cheap double clevis to see if this will work on his windlass.
If it does, and one can read the Peerless data sheets, his next issue might be finding an equally strong attachment point, with minimal work and modification to his vessel.
If you disagree with me, please explain specifically why.
Happy trails to you.
Mark, an unchained manatee

O disagree because:

"In this part of the workd where I am cruising, have access to all the machine shops, welders and galvanizers one could think of. So it got me thinking, should I take the chain to be welded so that I am no longer depending on that particular split link?"

Looks like he's canvassing options, including welding, to me.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

O disagree because:

"In this part of the workd where I am cruising, have access to all the machine shops, welders and galvanizers one could think of. So it got me thinking, should I take the chain to be welded so that I am no longer depending on that particular split link?"

Looks like he's canvassing options, including welding, to me.

So are you really trying to tell us you can pull up at a marina berth, offload chain, get it in a car, get it off to be welded, get it back in a car, back to the boat etc etc for less than the cost of a rated drop forged link?

I have to call BS on that. (-;

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

...I believe for $10 he could try a cheap [Peerless] double clevis...

Thank you and Jedi for pointing out this item. I have just now bought two of them. If it were to become necessary, they will allow me to easily and quickly connect all three of my lengths of anchor chain (port bow, starboard bow, and stern) on my boat into one long length.

Thanks guys.