Is it possible to haul in all chain by hand?

[charliehows]

manual windlass, 30 metres of chain, 45lb cqr. I'm reluctant to use this in more than 10-12metres because of the weight to haul it up - ive had to do it from 16metres a couple of times and its a major workout - wouldnt be possible for me hand over hand. I keep a 2nd rig - danforth with 10 ft of chain and 50 metres of rope for greater depths, emergencies and lunchpick.

[korrigan]

I have 100 feet of 5/16 chain and 300 feet of 3/8 nylon.

I don't have a windlass and haul the chain by hand.

This is pretty difficult but it's an Ok workout if you're in decent shape. If you're not in at least decent physical shape then you simply won't be able to pull up the anchor by hand.

Keep in mind, how difficult this is, is directly related to how deep of water you anchor in. I try to anchor in 20 feet of water. 30 feet is kind of my limit because deeper than that and it becomes a real chore to haul up the anchor. I made the mistake of dropping the anchor into an 80 foot hole once and it was hard for two of us to get it back.

I've considered using less chain. For sure I don't do things based on what people who cruise in the tropics around coral islands do but rather what works in the PNW.

You don't really need all chain in most situations. The coral heads sounds like a legitimate one though.

Part of the reason I have 100 feet of chain is because back when I used to listen to those old school curmudgeons that climb the mast steps to spy their next opportunity for a margarita on shore. But the reason I haven't changed is because I can anchor in 20 - 30 feet of water so it's not a problem. I love the security of all chain. Most of the time I don't even set the anchor (I know gasp!!) I drop it on the bottom and then spread the chain out in what I think will be the direction we set and then forget it. It never drags and most of the time wont even straighten out the chain and put any load on the anchor.

Around here the wind and current always change. In most cases you won't spend the whole night pulling on the anchor the same direction. I've got a CQR and it's not going to reset. Hell it won't even set in most cases. But with the huge anchor and the 100 feet of chain I just don't worry.

If it looks predictable and if there's any prospect of wind I will 'set' the anchor in the traditional sense but I have no reason to think it actually digs into the bottom. Most of the time it comes up clean.

I have had the need to put out lots of scope when anchored in a surprise gale and for that it seems like more chain isn't necessary. That's where the 3/8ths comes in handy.

Anyway, this setup works for me. I always put out all the chain and tie off the 3/8ths to the cleat so no need for a chain stopper. I wouldn't suggest carrying more than 100 feet of chain unless that's what it takes to keep from having the rode cut by coral or you're going to Patagonia or something. That's already very heavy and if you're just anchoring in normal conditions you don't even need that much.

Oh and when the hordes go away at the end of their season and I can count on buoys the anchor will go back into the cockpit locker where it belongs because the boat is so much happier without having the couple hundred pounds in the bow.

[Charlie]

I have a 33' boat. 35' of 3/8" chain and a 45lb CQR attached to 300' of 5/8 rode. I'm 51 and in decent shape. I was anchoring in as deep as 35'. After three weeks of this I got a lot stronger. My manual windlass stopped working. I think that the anchor/rode combo I have is overkill but then again when I was in 60 knot gusts 8 of the 12 boat anchored in a protected anchorage dragged anchor while I staid solidly in place. I think that 75 or 100' of hi test should be plenty of chain.

[tominny]

I don't have a windlass on my 34' boat with 64' of 3/8 BBB and 2x 200' rode and a 45 lbs Manson.
The deepest I anchored with that set-up was in 35' feet which was a good workout but very manageable. Have not met the limit yet, something that is certainly out there.
But what the boat has and I find crucial is a bow roller and a way for me to sit on deck and brace my feet so I can use both hands with a relatively straight back and some leg help.
I've raised anchor in a blow singlehanded with an AP motoring slowly into the wind. Worked well.
A windlass (with manual option) is the prudent choice of course but especially a double handed crew should be able to handle most situation if they have practiced and perfected hauling using a cockpit winch.

[northoceanbeach]

So you're saying yes.....sweet. I now have 150 of chain and 150 of rope with a 22 lb rocna. Probably the rocna is a little small for a boat my size but with that much chain I'm hurricane proof.

[farm sail]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

So you're saying yes.....sweet. I now have 150 of chain and 150 of rope with a 22 lb rocna. Probably the rocna is a little small for a boat my size but with that much chain I'm hurricane proof.

Not quite that simple. By the time you get near hurricane force winds your rode will be arrow tight and the chain wont do a thing for you. At that point it is all about proper scope a strong rode good holding power and a well set anchor.

[SVJennie]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

So you're saying yes.....sweet. I now have 150 of chain and 150 of rope with a 22 lb rocna. Probably the rocna is a little small for a boat my size but with that much chain I'm hurricane proof.

Considering that hurricanes are present "...when sustained winds or frequent gusts of 64 knots (118 km/h, 74 mph) or greater...," mentions nothing about fetch, strength of chain/line attachment point to the boat, chafe on the line and/or chain eroding the deck while the boat is hobby-horsing, or your anchor being able to hold with very strong forces acting on it. Then there is also the possibility of other boats dragging down on you and/or fouling your anchor, etc.
Other than not being in hurricane territory and safely outside the seasonal times, I can't think of any arrangement that is "hurricane proof." However, being challenged by such events, you do whatever you can, with everything you have, and hope for the best.

[noelex 77]

Interesting debate.

I have cruised for many years on smaller boats without a windlass and it is doable, but in deep water it is tough.

One aspect that has not been mentioned is that an electric windless does promote better anchoring practices and is therefore safer.

With the ease of anchoring and re-anchoring with an electric windlass people are far more likely too:

• Carry an appropriately sized anchor.
• Carry and use more chain.
• Re-anchor if something is not quite right, or conditions change.
• Anchor in deep water when this is the safest and best option.

This is a state of mind rather than absolute limit, but the reality is without a windlass you will make compromises that would not have otherwise been made.

One other consideration is what happens if you drag into deep water? Make sure you have a system for raising the total weight of the rode. If you have lots of chain, which you will need in coral waters, this is usually not possible by hand alone.

Using sheet or halyard winches with chain hooks it is usually feasible, but it does need some thought beforehand. Even if you have an electric winch it is worth contemplating this scenario, although here it does need two failures (failure of the winch and failure of the anchor to hold).

[Sailorbob8599]

NOELEX 77 writes:- "One aspect that has not been mentioned is that an electric windless does promote better anchoring practices and is therefore safer."

It's the word "safer" I have a problem with ... the reason I've never considered installing an electric windlass is, electric gizmos have a tendency to malfunction ... usually at the worst possible moment. What do you do when it fails? Is your anchor rode 'trapped" ...
Personally, I much prefer the safety of a manual windlass that can be dismantled if needs be to allow manual pay-out of the rode.
Of course, if your windlass is properly serviced, there should be no mechanical problem ... right? ... Right!

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

Personally, I much prefer the safety of a manual windlass that can be dismantled if needs be to allow manual pay-out of the rode.

Yes, it is a good point. Relying on electric "gizmos" to make your boat safer needs some careful thought.

My previous post was comparing no windlass to an electric one, rather than a manual one vs an electric windlass. A manual windlass is a bit between nothing (hauling in by hand) and an electric windless.

However, I still think an electric anchor winch that will enable any crew member (not just the strongest) to rapidly (speed can be important in some situations), and effortlessly haul in the anchor is a safety feature over a manual winch.

Backup systems for the inevitable failure of the electric winch are important, but these days with a bit of care they are very reliable.

Manual winches have always been regarded as more reliable, but most of the manual winches are getting very old (are any still made?) with few spare parts available. I am not sure that this benefit of a manual winch still applies, at least to those thinking of upgrading an older manual winch to a newer electrical version.

Fitting a good quality oversized electric winch with the correct sized wiring and preferably mounting the motor and gearbox in a dry location will do wonders for reliability. Two independent sets of switches (say a wired remote and a wireless option) will help further.

The most common failures of electric winches are simple solenoid or switch failures. These are easy to fix or bypass. This is something you should know how to do if you have an electric winch.

So my recommendation for a long distance cruising boat would be to fit an electric anchor winch if this is reasonably feasible.

BTW many electrical winches have a manual cone clutch so electricity is not needed to drop the anchor, only to raise it. Some electric winches also have a manual back up to raise the anchor, but generally this is next to useless. Using the sheet winches is usually a much better backup.

[Sailorbob8599]

As with many things, it all comes down to people having their own opinion on most subjects.
I'm not exactly a "purist" but I basically try to keep it simple. I stay away from most things electrical on my vessel for various reasons. The primary one being the need to supply endless amounts of power to run these things, and the fact I only have one House Battery and one Start battery.
I should also mention I'm located in the PNW and NOT in the tropics therefore, my requirements probably differ greatly from yours as well, mine is a "pocket sized cruiser" with little extra space to spare for luxury items.
The Windlass I chose is a "double action MUIR" made in OZ.
It's a great piece of equipment and easily managed by my (soon to be 80 yo) First Mate. When asked, she said she doesn't want an electrical windlass.
I've never won an argument with my lovely First Mate of 59 years ...

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

As with many things, it all comes down to people having their own opinion on most subjects.
I'm not exactly a "purist" but I basically try to keep it simple. I stay away from most things electrical on my vessel for various reasons. The primary one being the need to supply endless amounts of power to run these things, and the fact I only have one House Battery and one Start battery.
I should also mention I'm located in the PNW and NOT in the tropics therefore, my requirements probably differ greatly from yours as well, mine is a "pocket sized cruiser" with little extra space to spare for luxury items.
The Windlass I chose is a "double action MUIR" made in OZ.
It's a great piece of equipment and easily managed by my (soon to be 80 yo) First Mate. When asked, she said she doesn't want an electrical windlass.
I've never won an argument with my lovely First Mate of 59 years ...

Grats on the 59 years. Smart man, you can't win it's a drew and both are happy.

[Sandero]

Electric windlass should used with the engine running the alternator "replenishing" the amps that the windlass consumes. Windlasses are pretty rugged and reliable. But all mechanical AND electrical things fail at some time for any number of reasons. I think the windlass IS a safety feature because it provides for less hassle in anchoring and that means re setting (when it's a good idea) is not even a second thought.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

As with many things, it all comes down to people having their own opinion on most subjects.
I'm not exactly a "purist" but I basically try to keep it simple. I stay away from most things electrical on my vessel for various reasons. The primary one being the need to supply endless amounts of power to run these things, and the fact I only have one House Battery and one Start battery.
I should also mention I'm located in the PNW and NOT in the tropics therefore, my requirements probably differ greatly from yours as well, mine is a "pocket sized cruiser" with little extra space to spare for luxury items.
The Windlass I chose is a "double action MUIR" made in OZ.
It's a great piece of equipment and easily managed by my (soon to be 80 yo) First Mate. When asked, she said she doesn't want an electrical windlass.
I've never won an argument with my lovely First Mate of 59 years ...

Thanks for sharing what works for you. There are lots of options and lots of opinions. But you have lots of experience with your setup so more than just an armchair opinion.