It's True! The Mantus 65-lb. hooks first time, everytime.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Mantus Anchors

The anchor actually sets deeper without the roll bar.... we will make videos to show that shortly....

but here is one showing that it lands right every time.....

Love that video.

But are you a power boater? I never throw an anchor. I let it down. Fast or slow but I let it down.

[JonJo]

Sorry,

But I need to ask the question, if the Mantus sets every time (without the roll bar, great video) and if the Mantus sets better (without the roll bar, have not seen that video - but I'm sure it is great) and if the roll bar inhibits its use on some yachts (the roll bar gets in the way consequently reducing market appeal) and presumably the roll bar 'costs' - why on earth is there a roll bar in the first place?

Is the suggestion therefore that historic buyers can throw their roll bar away?

Jonathan

[congo]

As I have twenty years of experience of roll bar concepts I feel I have some legitament comment and questions re Mantus.

Rocna or Manson will certainly tell all not to remove the hoop on their anchors, dropping an anchor in calm conditions concave, convex, with or without roll bar attached will all land the right way, they call this effect centre of gravity, try this same exercise in current, you will find a totally different result, which ever way you drop the concave anchor design the current will create a vortex and the anchor will land upside down, or the right way depending on how you dropped it. Not a good thought with no roll bar on a concave when confronted with unexpected emergency situations when you just have to let your anchor go and hang on.

Some on this forum have said they have cut of their roll bars on both Rocna and Manson then stated their anchors work better, one should be aware that should your roll bar anchor design roll down a drop of or tumble on uneven ground to adapt an upside down position that is the way it will stay.

Head to a sandy beach and try this for yourself, further if you have changing forceful winds and the anchor is tumbled out rearward again adapting the upside down position, you may find yourself in a spot of bother.

I am puzzled with the Mantus claims, if what they say is true, deeper setting, doesn’t need the roll bar, is it simply a handle, accessory to make easier handling? Can’t wait to see those videos to prove me wrong.


Rex.

CEO of Anchor Right Auatralia.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

My bad & I am very sorry for the misinformation on the Mantus being made in the USA.

The original anchors were made in the US but they could not be price competitive making them here so Greg is now having them made in China... My Mantus anchor was a very early production one, hence my recollection they were US made...

Again, sorry for the misleading and incorrect info on where Mantus anchors are manufactured...

i doubt it would cost much more. i should ask my welder how much to cut the steel, and bend it, and drill holes. seriously, he may save $10-40 per anchor. seeing as how his price on the anchors are massively marked up (aren't all marine products) i doubt you would notice a price difference.

[sailorboy1]

I have always felt that part of the function of the roll bar was to support the flukes

But I like my MS roll bar as that I what I tie a line to when it is on the bow roller.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by scoobert

i doubt it would cost much more. i should ask my welder how much to cut the steel, and bend it, and drill holes. seriously, he may save $10-40 per anchor. seeing as how his price on the anchors are massively marked up (aren't all marine products) i doubt you would notice a price difference.

I think you will find that the unit cost of a Chinese made anchor is significantly lower than in, say, America. The cost of lower strength steels can be lower in China and these lower cost steels can vary in composition and thus test results will vary (but who cares and who notices). Hi tensile steels are expensive in China and seem to be in short supply (as they are not much used in leisure anchors, in China). Labour costs are still much lower in China than America and welding of leisure anchors is not automated (that I am aware of). Quality control is a lower cost in China - if QC exisits at all in some locations. Galvanising in America of small lots is expensive (compared with China where health and safety and environmental issues add little or no costs).

Frankly I doubt that an American steel fabricator could source (the steel), cut, fold, weld and galvanise small numbers of Mantus anchors and get anywhere near the Mantus prices.

But I could not agree more - the economy of Chinese manufacture of anchors does not seem to have filtered through to the American, or Australian) consumer. One has to wonder where that extra money goes?

But it costs no more to build a Delta in China than a Rocna or Mantus. There is a difference in price, Lewmar seem to offer that advantageous pricing to us, the consumer (and oddly, by and large, Lewmar seem to be a credible supplier - few complaints about quality).

If you can find a locally made, American, European, Australian anchor you can be relatively sure it is made from the correct steel (or alloy), it meets whatever quality control criteria is specified (and is the same quality as was made last year and the decade before etc). You can be fairly sure the employees are correctly paid, have insurance and health cover and that the manufacturing process meets environmental laws. You can be fairly sure that the simple process of manufacture helps in a small way to keep employment up and maintain skills. It might also be that the manufacturer actually makes a robust product that will not bend and fail. If something goes badly wrong the American, Australian or European manufacturer will feel the heat of the market and will thus ensure he supports his reputation (as he cannot hide) and he will make the product correctly. You will perhaps also find that the American, Australian or European manufacturer has based his design on considerable trial (and tribulation) and has introduced some innovative ideas. Sadly all of this has a cost - which is why American, Australian and European designs might cost more (though their profit margins might be very small).

Jonathan

[scoobert]

the mantis is all bolted, or mostly bolted. and is made of only what? 2 or 3 pieces?
being that A36 steel is $550 a ton, there is about $11 in steel in a 50# anchor.
laser/plasma/water cutting in America is $100-140 an hour. in 1 hour they can typically cut over 300' of distance, so figure no less then 100 anchors, so lets assume $10-20 in cutting. 5 min of bending per anchor, punching holes takes little time, and the average shop charges $90 per hour they should be able to do 5 per hour, $18. figure a good sandblast, and a galvanizing, $30

using north east US retail pricing
$11 steel
$20 cutting
$18 manual machine work
$30 to galvanize.
----------
$79 to make one anchor. in the USA.
what is the cost of a 50# anchor?
$400.
$321 profit isn't enough for them? do they really need the extra $20?
seriously, thy need to build them here.
and, uh, why are stainless stupid priced? the cost of stainless steel is only $.67 a pound.....

[scoobert]

well, if i buy 10,000,000,000 of the 125# stainless steel anchors, it would only cost me
$46,000,000,000,000
lol, does he keep that many in stock?

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by scoobert

the mantis is all bolted, or mostly bolted. and is made of only what? 2 or 3 pieces?
being that A36 steel is $550 a ton, there is about $11 in steel in a 50# anchor.
laser/plasma/water cutting in America is $100-140 an hour. in 1 hour they can typically cut over 300' of distance, so figure no less then 100 anchors, so lets assume $10-20 in cutting. 5 min of bending per anchor, punching holes takes little time, and the average shop charges $90 per hour they should be able to do 5 per hour, $18. figure a good sandblast, and a galvanizing, $30

using north east US retail pricing
$11 steel
$20 cutting
$18 manual machine work
$30 to galvanize.
----------
$79 to make one anchor. in the USA.
what is the cost of a 50# anchor?
$400.
$321 profit isn't enough for them? do they really need the extra $20?
seriously, thy need to build them here.
and, uh, why are stainless stupid priced? the cost of stainless steel is only $.67 a pound.....

The shank is welded to the base plate.

Mantus, Rocna, Delta went to China for a very good reason - if it was not cost (and you need significant savings to compensate for the downsides) let us know! But the American costs you quote - if valid for small runs of anchors, suggest the savings are minimal - which begs the question - why move offshore.

Your costs might be correct in China but I suspect unless you are going to make 10,000 units at a time the costs for small runs will escalate - but I do confess that I have no idea how American manufacture might operate.

Jonathan

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by JonJo

The shank is welded to the base plate.

Mantus, Rocna, Delta went to China for a very good reason - if it was not cost (and you need significant savings to compensate for the downsides) let us know! But the American costs you quote - if valid for small runs of anchors, suggest the savings are minimal - which begs the question - why move offshore.

Your costs might be correct in China but I suspect unless you are going to make 10,000 units at a time the costs for small runs will escalate - but I do confess that I have no idea how American manufacture might operate.

Jonathan

chinese labor would be much lower, it may save $20-40 per anchor.
when i build my stainless anchor next year, 105#+ it will be made here :P
and it will not cost $4000 for me to make.

[Boatguy30]

Well, this has taken an interesting tack. But I believe it's just easier to buy stuff from china as it is all out of sight out of mind except the profit in the bank.

If you had it made locally, you might actually meet some of the people that make them and feel somewhat responsible for their livelihood. Much easier these days just to outsource it and throw you hands up and claim there's no other option.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Well, this has taken an interesting tack. But I believe it's just easier to buy stuff from china as it is all out of sight out of mind except the profit in the bank.

+1

If you had it made locally, you might actually meet some of the people that make them and feel somewhat responsible for their livelihood. Much easier these days just to outsource it and throw you hands up and claim there's no other option.

+1


We could now try to tack back -

removal of Mantus roll bar?

[Boatguy30]

I double checked and see the Manson is still made in New Zealand. Gotta say, having lived their it's a very expensive place to make and buy things but shows what pride and some appropriate government help can do.

I'd buy another Manson hands down if I were currently in the anchor market based on equal parts design, performance and first world tradesmen making them.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Catalpa1

Regardless, I personally would find it extremely hard to sleep relying on a couple of bolts keeping me held in an anchorage. You guys can keep the Mantus, I'm very happy with my Supreme.

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

You mean like that single shackle screw on your rode, or the two or four bolts on your deck cleat....

I own a Supreme, non-Chinese Rocna and a Mantus. All are excellent setters & resetters. The Mantus does seem to bite faster than the Supreme or Rocna but we are talking inches not feet... I do like the fact that it is US made and that it breaks down for stowage.. Our Rocna fits our roller better but I would be using the Mantus if it fit like the Rocna..

I ended up buying the Rocna. The only reason I could see the Mantus using bolts was cheaper shipping from China. So I saw no advantage. To me, being a Machinist, I didn't like the welds on the Supreme. I am cruising now and my primary is the Rocna. So far it has set every time. I use to use a 45# CQR. It would set in less than 25 feet. One out of ten times, it would lie on it's back and not set. The Rocna sets withing a few feet and has yet to fail me. Generally speaking they will all set the same being of the same design.
I have to laugh at the Mantus video of him throwing a tiny anchor on the beach to prove an anchor setting or not. I'm in the real world here. I use the Mantus chain hook. It is a lot superior to a regular hook. But then a rolling hitch works too.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by scoobert

the mantis is all bolted, or mostly bolted. and is made of only what? 2 or 3 pieces?
being that A36 steel is $550 a ton, there is about $11 in steel in a 50# anchor.
laser/plasma/water cutting in America is $100-140 an hour. in 1 hour they can typically cut over 300' of distance, so figure no less then 100 anchors, so lets assume $10-20 in cutting. 5 min of bending per anchor, punching holes takes little time, and the average shop charges $90 per hour they should be able to do 5 per hour, $18. figure a good sandblast, and a galvanizing, $30

using north east US retail pricing
$11 steel
$20 cutting
$18 manual machine work
$30 to galvanize.
----------
$79 to make one anchor. in the USA.
what is the cost of a 50# anchor?
$400.
$321 profit isn't enough for them? do they really need the extra $20?
seriously, thy need to build them here.
and, uh, why are stainless stupid priced? the cost of stainless steel is only $.67 a pound.....

This is sooo misrepresented.

First off, you have to construct and finance a factory.
Training a labor force
You have warehousing costs
Transportation, regardless where it is built
Advertising and promotion - someone has to pay for those cheesy videos
Insurance
and so on...

Plus, any marine part/accessory likely goes through several layers of importers, distributors, etc. All getting their piece of the pie.

Plus you have waste and inefficiency - something every manufacturer deals with.

Then there are the freebies given to trade groups and magazines

Plus, any good business plan would have a capital reserve for unexpected issues.

Plus who knows what else!?

Anchors are (to some extent) a commodity item and thus are price sensitive. There is plenty of competition out there to keep the manufacturers mostly honest.

In general, I suspect that the pricing is market correct.