Kingston Anchors ?

[ADMPRTR]

Yes, thank you Bill for the photos.

Do you mind if I ask how much you paid for that, please? I find it very interesting that the Quickset is not carried by Canadian distributors, although I was able to get a price of $394 which is a bit of a premium to pay over a Lewmar Delta 35 which can be purchased for CA$300 or less.

What I wonder about it is if it is better than a Delta. The only independent test I could find was from 2001 by Practical Sailor with a holding of 780LB in muddy-sand. The tests with the Delta seem to be in the same ballpark (despite what the Kingston web site states).

BTW, is it safe to assume you purhased the 35LB model, as they don't seem to list a 30LB model? What made you go for that make/style?

Thanks, Andrew

[knottygurl]

I got the 35 lb quickset and quotes for a davit system, which was the reason I went there. The lady that was helping me was one of the production workers as she said to me they were not actually open when I showed up. The owner was out but was going to get back to me with prices. I will be back on monday for my final numbers, and can get costs for others while I'm there for any others.
The the reason was its better holding grip, setting ease in various bottoms and the warrenty, and can be easily deployed from a bow roller.
My father had the plow anchor from them and originally purchased it 20 years ago for use with a northern 29 which he had for almost 10 years and then sold his boat. I happen to see his boat for sale again last year and the plow was still there and working very well so I can see how well it has stood the test of time.
When I grabbed the quickset it seemed to fit my hand, it felt right and that was the final decision for me, the plow was there as well, i grabbed it swung it and felt off to me. I know sounds dumb but that somehow played into my decision making. The plant had various anchors being assembled in various stages and I walked through the plant and saw the assembly process and liked what I saw, the attention to fitting it together, weld beads that were consistant, I used to do underwater welding and high pressure gas pipe welding in my younger years.
I wish I had a more scientific reason to explain the why but this is actually how I did the final decsion. Monday I will post the prices that I paid and what the costs are for the others mentioned here. If anyone wants more pics PM me and I will get the ones you want monday

Bill

edit.
I guess i should mention I am not a dealer, and they had no problems dealing direct with me. nor do i have affiliations with the company other then I live close by.

[ADMPRTR]

Thanks Bill.

Are you getting the QS35 for a Hughes 25? That is one big anchor! I was considering the QS50 on a CS36 but I am not confident it will fit my bow roller.

Andrew

[knottygurl]

Andrew
When I am there monday I will measure it up for you with a tape on it, they also have rollers there for the right size anchors weights. Again a few more pics to show it siting on the roller so you can see how it hangs and cradles the anchor.
Like they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
The 50 was a litle bigger then the 35 I got but the reason is I just got this boat to aid in teaching my wife how to sail and if she is a go, then I was planning to go bigger next year 30+ and I wil have already purchased the end result anchor.
I agree the 35 quickset is overkill, the 22 lb has my size (25ft loa) at the mid to upper end depending on your fudge factor.
When I am there on Monday I will lay out the 35 next to the 50 and then add the bow rollers so you can see it sitting on the roller with a tape measure.
I will also get numbers for you as well, if there are a few people actually interested in getting or upgrading, maybe a small bulk purchase would yeild a better price over all. I'll ask anyways if it is possible to work a deal.
Bill

[ADMPRTR]

Thank you Bill.

One thing that someone pointed out that is not so much the length of the shank that would be the problem (although that could also be an issue) but how far the flukes point back, where they may hit the forward edge of the bow. An important measurement, if you can get it and don't mind, would be the distance from where the shank would rest on the roller down to the end of of the fluke (both horizontally and vertically).

I much appreciate it. Then I will have to figure out how to measure the same dimensions on the boat (which is still in her winter blanket).

Of course, I also have to determine if going with a 50LB is too much overkill for a 36ft boat (that size is rated up to 50ft I believe).

Regards,

Andrew

[Kettlewell]

Kingston told me that the 50 lb. QuickSet would be overkill for my Finnsailer 38, weight about 22,000 lb., so I imagine the 35 should be good for your boat. I suppose it depends on where you'll be anchoring, etc. If the anchor has holding power at least equivalent to a CQR 35, and Kingston claims much higher, I would think the 35 should be plenty. I used a 35 lb. CQR on a 32-foot catamaran with much greater windage than your CS36, all up and down the East Coast and it worked well. The only place I had trouble with the CQR was in the Virgin Islands where the bottom was so hard that I couldn't get a bite, but then I switched to a FX-23 which held well there.

[knottygurl]

Andrew
Will do, I'll figure out a way to get you some reference points to work with so the number will have some meaning and pics to reference to your bow with a tape on it.
Bill

[ADMPRTR]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Kingston told me that the 50 lb. QuickSet would be overkill for my Finnsailer 38, weight about 22,000 lb., so I imagine the 35 should be good for your boat. I suppose it depends on where you'll be anchoring, etc. If the anchor has holding power at least equivalent to a CQR 35, and Kingston claims much higher, I would think the 35 should be plenty. I used a 35 lb. CQR on a 32-foot catamaran with much greater windage than your CS36, all up and down the East Coast and it worked well. The only place I had trouble with the CQR was in the Virgin Islands where the bottom was so hard that I couldn't get a bite, but then I switched to a FX-23 which held well there.

Ya, it is over kill. I believe that anchor is rated for a 50ft boat and mine is only 18000LB. However, after dragging last year on my 35lb Kingston Plow, I figured a bigger anchor might let me sleep better. In that situation, there were mitigating factors as well (too little chain, too much weed, 35kt winds) so it may be unfair to compare.

However, it raises the question, when does big become too big?

Andrew

[Kettlewell]

My personal thought on when it is "too big" is when you can't haul the anchor and chain up using muscle power, for when the windlass is broken, which it will be some day and inevitably when you are far from civilization, it is blowing a gale, and it is 2 AM. At least that is when everything critical breaks for me. I have found that I can haul up a 45-lb. anchor and 5/16 chain from close to 50-foot depths, but it is a workout if you have to do it more than once. That's a vertical load of around 100 lbs. when you're over the anchor. We've run into some cruisers on a big trawler who lost their windlass and they were in big trouble because of it. They were about 200 miles from any possible marine repair, and there were no marinas to tie up in. They needed help to haul the anchor and chain up and then they just had to go towards civilization non-stop, hoping they wouldn't have to anchor on the way because they only had one shot at it.

[ADMPRTR]

That is an excellent point.

Being able to raise it without a windlass is an important question. The problem is that one doesn't know what the limit is until it is needed. We are also not getting any younger.

Another point against too large anchor is simple storage. If it needs to be removed from a bow roller (i.e. during layup) can it be stored elsewhere on the boat.

Andrew

[pbiJim]

Originally Posted by ADMPRTR

Good points. I also guess that economies of scale are a big factor in regards to the YachtsMan price. Due to the specialized nature of the anchor, I am sure they sell very few in a year.

However, adding it ones arsenal depends on where one sails and the type of weather once can expect. For me, sailing inland waters, it is not a practical solution.

BTW, I read that type of anchor can be a problem in shifting winds, were the rode/chain can get tangled up on the flukes and dislodge the anchor. That would be a big concern in an extreme situation where one was depending on the anchor (i.e. a gale/hurricane).

Andrew

Shifting winds are a prime concern when anchoring. If you are in a hurricane & the eye passes over you, you will pretty much see a 180 degree wind shift & that is most noteworthy, especially when dealing with hurricane force winds.

I see all sorts of claims from "modern" anchor manufacturers about how their anchors reset quickly after being pulled out by a wind shift. I have personally seen both claw & solid plow type anchors drag almost endlessly on nice flat clean sandy bottoms when they get flipped exactly upside down. I think that the old admiralty anchors get a bad rap for pulling out in wind shifts. Sure, it happens to them on occasion, but it happens to other types as well. The older style admiralty anchors with the triangular flukes were more prone to snagging on the ground tackle than the Herreshoff style flukes which are more diamond shaped.

Any anchor can get tangled up under bad circumstances. The best type of anchor to use depends heavily on the type of sea bed that you are hooking into. Admiralty anchors do well in very grassy bottoms where most other anchors clog up. They also do well in rocks, but can sometimes get stuck there. Each anchor style has it's proper place in this world. The old time admiralty anchor is no exception.

I do tend to prefer those aluminum Danforth style anchors for everyday use in friendly bottoms on boats that don't have a windless.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, guys,

In the event of windlass failure you DO NOT HAVE TO RISK YOUR BACK! How we dealt with this situation was to take a long line, attach it to the chain with a rolling hitch, and one time, lead it back to a halyard winch, the other time to the primary winch, and crank the whole lot up, like sheeting in a jib or raising the main. It did take longer than with our push-pull levered windlass, but worked find for when the windlass quit working.

Ann

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My personal thought on when it is "too big" is when you can't haul the anchor and chain up using muscle power, for when the windlass is broken, which it will be some day and inevitably when you are far from civilization, it is blowing a gale, and it is 2 AM. At least that is when everything critical breaks for me. I have found that I can haul up a 45-lb. anchor and 5/16 chain from close to 50-foot depths, but it is a workout if you have to do it more than once. That's a vertical load of around 100 lbs. when you're over the anchor. We've run into some cruisers on a big trawler who lost their windlass and they were in big trouble because of it. They were about 200 miles from any possible marine repair, and there were no marinas to tie up in. They needed help to haul the anchor and chain up and then they just had to go towards civilization non-stop, hoping they wouldn't have to anchor on the way because they only had one shot at it.

If you are in very strong wind it will be impossible to raise anything but a small anchor with small chain. In storm force winds at the bow you will be on your knees with one hand holding on.
In these conditions the only option is to cut away your main anchor with a fender attached and retrieve it later.

In more moderate conditions it is worth thinking about, and practicing how you might retrieve the anchor and chain in the event of a windlass failure. For a sailboat as Ann so rightly says, halyard, or sheet winches have plenty of power and a system employing these is essential for cruising boats over 40-45 feet, with a small crew. Power boats should install a similar backup system.

If you drag and have a windlass failure, you are likely to be in deep water and the chain weight will be the dominant factor in most anchorages.

Finally learn how to bypass the windlass solenoid. This is the most common windlass failure and with a little bit pre planning it can be fixed very quickly.

[Almond]

Originally Posted by Hotboy

Hope this fits in with this thread.
Does anyone have experience with the Kingston Yachtsman anchor?
I understand they are a copy of the Herreshoff design.

I would especially be interested to find if they are available in Australia.

The Yachtsman is a great storm anchor. Separates into 3 pieces for easy stowage. I am the sales manager for Kingston Anchors. Had quite a few people comment on how well it held in hurricane type weather in the islands.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Dean.