Lantern as anchor light?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

I had wondered what the rings were for.

Those rings are for the guide wires so that a light, especially a 'sectored' light doesn't spin. .

Back in the old fashioned days if your ship had sampson posts ( rather than a mast or 'goalposts' ) on the foredeck it was common to see the frd steaming light sent aloft ( on a permanent basis ) on guide wires as can be seen here...

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...a-star/cat/520

And also here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gorgs8/12045388756

They were building ships with that set-up into the mid '50s

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

So you are that Muppet we almost ran down last year as we came into the anchorage during a rain squall?
Thankfully I had enough common sense to light you up with a spotlight giving myself barely enough time to avoid you.
Another 30 seconds and 70 tonne would have gone through your side.

And where is this imaginary rule of yours that overrides rule 30?
https://ecolregs.com/index.php?optio...id=402&lang=en

You should learn seamanship, and to enter designated anchorages carefully. But I get it--calling people names is easier than learning responsibility.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It may not be required, but you still seem to miss the point. The reason you use an anchor light is to be seen by other boats. It's not a legal check box. It is to avoid collision.

Your reasoning around not using a light in less-visited anchorages is just illogical, and makes it sound like you have a reason to hide*. These are the places where it is more important to be properly lit. You can't possibly guarantee you will be alone in any anchorage, and in these cases others will also come in not expecting anyone to be there.

(*Unless you're actually hiding from nefarious people, in which case I would say you should go somewhere else)

For the record, I usually travel off the beaten path. It's rare for me to share an anchorage with another cruiser. Last season we sailed the northern peninsula of Newfoundland. Out for two months. Anchored almost every night. Shared an anchorage exactly once.

... but always flipped on my anchor light .

I could say that flipping on a light in a remote anchorage where there's no chance of people plowing through is illogical as well. I show a light wherever there's need, but in a corner of Quirpon, in a cove off the little Regullet, or at La Falaise, it's a waste of battery.
If you have never cruised where there are nefarious people, I congratulate you. If you leave the safe confines of you home waters--which I might not, if could cruise Newfoundland always--you might find yourself in areas where the less attention your boat draws, the better. I was boarded and burgled in Nicaragua--there were no options of where to anchor, and the only way to avoid would have been to skip the country altogether. But then that's one of the dangers of visiting faraway places.
And so, instead of making a hard and fast unbreakable rule, I exercise prudence in when and where to show a light. So far, having one on did not prevent a collision, but not having one on has never resulted in being hit.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No Benz, I think your position is foolish. For you to simply say "it's on you to avoid me.." does not prevent the collision.

So, it's their fault, but you're still hit.

And I anchor in places where no other boats are often seen, but I hang my light. Nobody expects me to be there, so I want them to know that I am.

I think it is both foolish and arrogance to do otherwise.

Thank you. When I am accused of arrogance, I know I've won the argument and the loser is simply licking his wounds.
I hope it brings you some relief.

[rslifkin]

Being careful entering anchorages is good, but at the same time, one shouldn't have to wave a spotlight around and annoy everyone in there just to see where the boats are.

The rule of not needing an anchor light in a special anchorage is antiquated, based on when keeping an anchor light powered overnight was significant on a small boat. It's now 2020, we have low powered lights (my very bright 3nm anchor light draws 0.26 amps at 12v and many others draw less). And we have better batteries, solar panels, etc. So 2 or 3 amp-hours overnight for an anchor light is not even a remote concern.

Basically, it comes down to: is there any valid reason to ever not display an anchor light? Personally, even on a mooring I use one. Basically if I'm attached to anything that's not a dock overnight, the anchor light is on.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by StuM

Actually, not "sailboats" per se. It's "power driven vessels under 12m" which includes sailboats under power that may use an all-round white light instead of a masthead light and stern light.


Note however that there is a major problem with using your anchor light in this situation. As a sailing vessel you will amost certainly have your sidelights and stern light on the same circuit. Is is NOT legal to display both an all-round white light and a stern light.

Well the COLREGS say you can, I’ll leave it at that, however the main point that I’m trying to make is that People are misreading or not understanding the regs, when the reg speaks of a masthead light, they are not speaking of the anchor light. I don’t know why they won’t refer to it as an anchor light or a steaming light, no idea, but they apparently don’t.

The masthead light is the steaming light, making the mast head the front of the mast, regardless of what a some dictionaries say. I was corrected on that sometime ago myself, by Dockhead I think, cause I assumed the mast head was the top, as logically the head of most things is.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Benz

I could say that flipping on a light in a remote anchorage where there's no chance of people plowing through is illogical as well. I show a light wherever there's need, but in a corner of Quirpon, in a cove off the little Regullet, or at La Falaise, it's a waste of battery.
If you have never cruised where there are nefarious people, I congratulate you. If you leave the safe confines of you home waters--which I might not, if could cruise Newfoundland always--you might find yourself in areas where the less attention your boat draws, the better. I was boarded and burgled in Nicaragua--there were no options of where to anchor, and the only way to avoid would have been to skip the country altogether. But then that's one of the dangers of visiting faraway places.
And so, instead of making a hard and fast unbreakable rule, I exercise prudence in when and where to show a light. So far, having one on did not prevent a collision, but not having one on has never resulted in being hit.

But it is you who is being unequivocal. There are always exceptions to every rule, and I fully agree that specifics matter. But you're not saying that. You're saying you only use a anchor light when faced with the likelihood of a fine. And you don't use a light in less traveled area because "there's no chance of people plowing through." But you cannot possibly know this as a certainty. So you are failing your own prudence test.

I'm sorry to hear about your boarding in Nicaragua. So, by all means, keep the light off if you truly think you are in danger AND you think this will help. But I can guarantee you, you are in no danger of assault while anchored in Noble or Orleans Cove near Quirpon. But you are definitely a navigational hazard if you don't show an anchor light at night.

You certainly come off like someone who only cares about themselves. Very non-Newfoundlanderish .

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

But it is you who is being unequivocal. There are always exceptions to every rule, and I fully agree that specifics matter. But you're not saying that. You're saying you only use a anchor light when faced with the likelihood of a fine. And you don't use a light in less traveled area because "there's no chance of people plowing through." But you cannot possibly know this as a certainty. So you are failing your own prudence test.

I'm sorry to hear about your boarding in Nicaragua. So, by all means, keep the light off if you truly think you are in danger AND you think this will help. But I can guarantee you, you are in no danger of assault while anchored in Noble or Orleans Cove near Quirpon. But you are definitely a navigational hazard if you don't show an anchor light at night.

You certainly come off like someone who only cares about themselves. Very non-Newfoundlanderish .

Mike,
This tread began with a question of what was legal, and has now degenerated into a discussion of who is selfish. My original answer to the OP, which you immediately began to disagree with, was about legality. He's from New York, so I addressed his home waters.
What is good practice, outside of the law, is a matter of opinion. I respect your right to opine whatever you choose, but I too have earned the right to think what I please. If the Newfies find me selfish, I hope they will let me know: I wouldn't for the world cause them an offense.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Anchor lights!!!! Last year while traveling in San Francisco bay at night with no moonlight, Dark as it gets, we suddenly came upon two dark-colored boats anchored with no anchor lights. We saw them with plenty of time but would have really liked to have seen them sooner. We were motoring the Pearson 30 and not going fast but still, it annoyed me. I reported them to the harbormaster in the morning.

[Cheechako]

Use your steaming light for now. it's legal on smaller boats.
I imagine a lantern is fine, oil anchor lights are acceptable and not very bright! My first cruiser used an oil anchor light. Smelly mess.

[NorthCoastJoe]

I must add, they were NOT in a designated anchorage. Better to be seen.

[thinwater]

When you drive on a public road, you stop at stop signs and follow speed limits. You may speed a little and gripe about 4-way stops, but there is no question but that a good citizen generally follows the rules that have been agreed on. Period.



Same with navigation lights. I don't have to like the rules but I do have to follow them, not for me, but for others and because that is what citizens do. I'm not special. Like rolling a stop sign, I understand that they get bent a little sometimes. It is in this spirit that the OP asked about lanterns.



----


A practical test is probably to hang the proposed lantern from a tree or mailbox, drive 1/2 mile away, and not if it is easy to see, even if there are some background lights and head lights, because there will be in harbor. That's not a 2-mile test, but it gives you an idea if it will work. liability and detailed compliance are separate issues, but I hope we are talking emergency only.


A better test is to hang the lantern near a boat with his anchor light on (I've done this), back off at least 200 feet (to get in the anchor lights angle range) and take a picture. Compare. The reason for the camera, BTW, is that to the human eye both may appear "bright" because the rods overload when you look at it, but the images will show the difference.

[Cheechako]

Standard masthead anchor lights are down right dangerous when anchored in front of a lighted town or city. Yet they're legal. An incoming boat will never see the light.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Benz

You should learn seamanship, and to enter designated anchorages carefully. But I get it--calling people names is easier than learning responsibility.

I do, that's why I lit the likes of you up with a searchlight.

But how about you display some seamanship and run a light like you are supposed to.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Standard masthead anchor lights are down right dangerous when anchored in front of a lighted town or city. Yet they're legal. An incoming boat will never see the light.

I'm all for adapting to the situation. I have limited (maybe no ... hmmm) experience anchoring in the lee of such urban light pollution, but if it takes a different approach than the law dictates, then I say go for it. Although, I suspect if the lights are that bright, then the boats are probably already well lit up.

It's in the remote, off-the-beaten-path anchorages, where being seen is more important. Once again, unless you're scared of the natives, there's really no reason NOT to be shining a good anchor light, regardless of where you are. It's called basic seamanship.