Lantern as anchor light?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Benz

...This is about common sense, Jim: not selfishness; not lazyness; not unseamanliness. You and @MikeOReilly have latched onto this issue like a terrier to a bone, and are heading further down the path of the unreasonably self-righteous. Neither my experience nor the law agree with your opinion. Perhaps you should leave it there.

As you seem to be saying, you have the right to be wrong.

[Don C L]

I don't want to aggravate things too much, but I know the Punta Sal lagoon. It is indeed very dark at night I am sure (I was there during the day,) but when I was there there were 2 boats anchored there so it is not unknown. In my own area there are anchorages that rarely get visitors, but if I don't have a light up and I get hit, I know I am to blame. If I am in an anchorage where I am afraid to show myself with a light, I think I'd bail out as soon as possible! The bad guys surely have spotlights.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I don't want to aggravate things too much, but I know the Punta Sal lagoon. It is indeed very dark at night I am sure (I was there during the day,) but when I was there there were 2 boats anchored there so it is not unknown. In my own area there are anchorages that rarely get visitors, but if I don't have a light up and I get hit, I know I am to blame. If I am in an anchorage where I am afraid to show myself with a light, I think I'd bail out as soon as possible! The bad guys surely have spotlights.

Thanks Don. I can't believe we're even having this discussion. It's clearly against the law to NOT be showing an anchor light outside of these rare Special Anchorages. And to justify it by claiming there is zero chance that anyone else would venture there is clearly wrong on the simple face of it. If one boat went there, then obviously others can -- and probably do.

The main point of an anchor light is not to check some legal box, or even to protect you and your vessel. The main point is to protect others from running into an unmarked obstacle.

I'm not anal about having a proper 2nm, all-round light (although that is best). I'm all for modifying the regs to fit my circumstances. But I won't put others at unnecessary risk. Especially (and this is important), especially these days when LED lights are so easy to acquire and use.

Back a couple of decades, before LED lights, I can understand why some people may not have always used their anchor lights. Those old incandescent bulbs were amp-hogs. But not anymore. These days, unless you're hiding from bad guys, there really are very few reasons NOT to be shining a good light.

I'm sure Benz just won't leave it alone. And I really don't care about his poor seamanship. I just don't want some new cruiser to be misled.

[Mr B]

I put two stainless steel Led bars on the top steps of my boat to light up the steps and the dinghy, To make it easy to see getting off and on my boat in the dark,
Its below the the top step, so it dont shine back into the cockpit,

The left one is just below my transom Nav light, Which after reading these posts, Has never been legal from manufacture,
The railing post behind it blocks the nav light from the rear,
The wind Gen post , Hammock, Dinghy, Would have blocked it from the rear totally, Possibly a maximum of 80 degrees visible, to the side of the boat,

My new Led lights light up the rear of my Cat like a Christmas tree, Which I have no doubt can be seen clearly from the horizon,
It drowns out the nav lights visibility totally,
So now I will use the transom step lights as my rear Nav lights,
They use bugga all power, and are wired into my anchor lights, Which I leave on at night when Im not in a Marina,

Anchor lights are the rear Leds and Nav light, White forwards half way up the mast, and the 360 white at the top of the mast,

Steaming lights are the ones I use when I am travelling,
Green red at the Bow, White light forwards, halfway up the mast, 360 All round white, and green red at the top of the mast, Transom Leds and Nav light,

An passing ship that scratches my VHF, I turn on the deck lights which lights up the whole top of my boat, Which tells them I know their there,

Ships going past in either direction, I usually stay away about 100 yards, Depending on the depth under me,

I also have two Led bars on my top spreader for travelling at night,
Which saved me from sailing head on into an unlight channel post coming into the Marina at 3-30 AM,

Whether I comply with Colregs, USA, or not, I dont care, Im not in the USA,
But I can be clearly seen when I am travelling or on anchor,

Power boats and fishing boats travel day and night every where, So they can see me whether Im up a shallow creek, River or very close too a beach, or any where else I care to drop my anchor,

Cheers, Brian,

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I

Anchor lights are the rear Leds and Nav light, White forwards half way up the mast, and the 360 white at the top of the mast,

Steaming lights are the ones I use when I am travelling,
Green red at the Bow, White light forwards, halfway up the mast, 360 All round white, and green red at the top of the mast, Transom Leds and Nav light,

Not quite sure I understand you, but it appears that you are in serious violation of COLREGs and any other vessel seeing your lights at night will be saying "WTF is that and which way is it heading!"

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not quite sure I understand you, but it appears that you are in serious violation of COLREGs and any other vessel seeing your lights at night will be saying "WTF is that and which way is it heading!"

Yep, you only have to work your way past a couple of working prawn trawlers (shrimp boats) with their deck lights completely drowning out their nav lights to appreciate the wisdom of the COLREGS.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Yep, you only have to work your way past a couple of working prawn trawlers (shrimp boats) with their deck lights completely drowning out their nav lights to appreciate the wisdom of the COLREGS.

Had that happen a few times inside the GBR

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not quite sure I understand you, but it appears that you are in serious violation of COLREGs and any other vessel seeing your lights at night will be saying "WTF is that and which way is it heading!"

I comply with Victorian boat laws, Thats all I have to comply with,

I could put it in braille if you cant see which way my boat is heading,

My lights are regulation, Its just the rear is lit up like a christmas tree,

I cant see the nav lights on a cruise ship either, But I can certainly see which way its going,

[Jim Cate]

If I was someplace that the authorities cared, I probably would display a day shape, but haven't been anywhere that that's an issue, and have only rarely seen anyone display one. Do you?

Well, that's heartening... you probably would obey colregs if the authorities cared. Makes me wonder why you have determined that the anchor light, a much more useful tool is different and not necessary. The authorities have made it pretty clear that they do care about them, so...

And for what it is worth, I do display an anchor ball routinely, as well as the appropriate lights. And that is kinda interesting, for the light is IMO a real safety issue, while the anchor ball is , again IMO, not much use other than to satisfy rules... and yet I do it. Having once been T-boned at anchor, I was glad that it was up there, even though the perp had neither money nor insurance and the ball never was brought into question.

And finally, I'll admit to not flying the motorsailing shape routinely. Mea Culpa.

So, I reckon that this has gone on too long already, and I think I'll bow out. You have not convinced me that anchor lights are not required and useful in the vast majority of anchorages of the world. I remain a believer!

Jim

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Mr B

I comply with Victorian boat laws, Thats all I have to comply with,

I could put it in braille if you cant see which way my boat is heading,

My lights are regulation, Its just the rear is lit up like a christmas tree,

The lights you describe are not "regulation" if you are displaying all of these at the same time:

"Steaming lights are the ones I use when I am travelling
Green red at the Bow, White light forwards, halfway up the mast, 360 All round white, and green red at the top of the mast, Transom Leds and Nav light,"


If you think you only have to comply with Victorian Laws, I suggest you take a look at Marine Order 30 (Prevention of collisions) 2016
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016L01187


And also the Victoria Marine Safety Act 2010 and Marine Safety Regulations 2012 which implement COLREGs specifically in Victoria

[MartinR]

I have the same issue, no masthead anchor light. I hoist a Sure-AT-Lite instead. Actually I fix it under the bimini, then it works also as cockpit lighting. This is not an approved anchor light, but is very visible. Dead angles exist.

Once upon a time we hoisted kerosene lamps into the fore triangle.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, I reckon that this has gone on too long already, and I think I'll bow out. You have not convinced me that anchor lights are not required and useful in the vast majority of anchorages of the world. I remain a believer!

Jim

Same here, anchor light every time the hook goes down - where's the down side? Been anchored way off the beaten track before and surprised to hear an outboard go by in the dark , presumably some local guy out and about. Light goes up every time, you never know...
Home made LED under the ball in an old paraffin lamp which never really worked. Best of 3 worlds

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by StuM

The lights you describe are not "regulation" if you are displaying all of these at the same time:

"Steaming lights are the ones I use when I am travelling
Green red at the Bow, White light forwards, halfway up the mast, 360 All round white, and green red at the top of the mast, Transom Leds and Nav light,"


If you think you only have to comply with Victorian Laws, I suggest you take a look at Marine Order 30 (Prevention of collisions) 2016
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016L01187


And also the Victoria Marine Safety Act 2010 and Marine Safety Regulations 2012 which implement COLREGs specifically in Victoria

Your carrying on the same as when I had my anchors across the walkway to work on them,
My lights comply as per the images below,

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I did say that "may" be reasoning for your "special" mooring field but it is not for areas you claim no on goes to so no need for one.




How so?
Battery and solar, perhaps you have heard of these things?



What about the catamaran or tri who draws less than you and anchors in closer?
Before our current vessel we had one and always anchored in closer to the beach.


How do you know no one moves at night?
Unexpected change of weather can have people moving is one example.
Late arrivals is another.
We have been in places where we never expected to see another boat yet in the morning have one anchored nearby, inside coral lagoons with unmarked entrances, in creek systems with barred entrances, you don't know what others people movements are,

It is the CG who determined that barges in special anchorages need not be lit. Perhaps they haven't heard of batteries and solar--you might ask them. the rule is theirs, not mine.
As for the San Blas islands, if you ever go there, you will see that anyone bold and competent (or stupid, if it was me) enough to move about in the dark will have no difficulty avoiding any unlit obstruction above the water. And that's my point: there are simply some places, regardless of your lack of experience or imagination, where showing a light does nothing.
I guess there's a chance that some trimaran might come squeezing past in the dead of night--but I've never had it happen in the places I'm speaking of, and I'll take my chances on it. Again--the only time I've ever been hit at anchor was when I was showing a light, so that helped me not a whit. Perhaps it would have given me moral high ground if we had caught the idiot who t-boned me, but as others have pointed out, I was still hit.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I don't want to aggravate things too much, but I know the Punta Sal lagoon. It is indeed very dark at night I am sure (I was there during the day,) but when I was there there were 2 boats anchored there so it is not unknown. In my own area there are anchorages that rarely get visitors, but if I don't have a light up and I get hit, I know I am to blame. If I am in an anchorage where I am afraid to show myself with a light, I think I'd bail out as soon as possible! The bad guys surely have spotlights.

Don, would you ever attempt the entrance in the dark? IMO, anyone who can enter that lagoon in the dark will have no difficulty avoiding unlit boats once inside. And the bad guys there don't have spotlights--my dinghy was stolen by someone in a dugout canoe with a blunt machete to cut the painter.
And given that there was a fisherman there who strung his nets and left them all unlit overnight, anyone moving around after dark would be a real jerk.