Lewmar H2 Windlass Stuck on UP and other issues...

[Tspringer]

So we are cruising the Bahamas and sailed from Little Harbor in the Abacos to Egg Island just east of Spanish Wells yesterday. Anchored for the night no issues. Then this morning we picked up the hood and motored over to Meeks Patch to anchor for the blow coming in late tomorrow.

As my wife is using the wired remote to lower the anchor, just as she has done hundreds of times, the anchor suddenly switches directions and begins to come UP instead of down. She furiously punches DOWN on the remote and begins yelling to me -- by the time I go forward the chain had been raised enough for the snubber to jam firmly in the windlass which then tripped the breaker.

No the windlass does not function -- putting the breaker back instantly initiates UP and with the snubber jammed the breaker trips again.

We cannot remove the jammed snubber line. I have cut away as much of it as possible the amount of line jammed cannot be cut away.

The windlass apparently has NO means of free wheeling the chain down. I have done as the manual says and pushed forward (clockwise) on the bolt head on the starboard side of the windlass at the gypsy but no matter how much force is put on that it does nothing. So there is no way to manually release the gypsy to free the chain and jammed snubber.

We also cannot access the solenoid (which I replaced a year ago) because the cover piece cannot be removed without removing the entire windlass from the platform being removed which cannot be done with the chain and snubber jammed.

So we are anchored at Meeks Patch scratching heads on what the hell to do. I am going to manually yank up the chain enough to put a snubber line on it and gain some slack in the chain and then start trying to remove the windlass from the mounting platform so that I can then remove the rear cover panel and gain access to the electrics.

Any ideas on any way to clear the snubber jam?

Any ideas on why the windlass suddenly switched on its own to UP only regardless of what button on the remote is pushed?

Any ideas on why Lewmar would build a windlass without any means of raising or lowering the chain manually????? On the starboard side bolt that the Lewmar manual indicates you turn clockwise to manually release the gypsy - turning clockwise as hard as I can AND beating on it with a hammer did absolutely nothing. Turning counter clockwise results in teh side cover panel being removed as the nut spins off. Beneath the cover I see no means of any kind to release the gypsy.

Stuck.... and a big blow coming tomorrow!



Terry

[Jammer]

Should be able to remove four bolts from the cover and pull it off aft to get access to the motor and solenoid. Here's an excerpt from the parts diagram.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

We cannot remove the jammed snubber line. I have cut away as much of it as possible the amount of line jammed cannot be cut away.

Did you try fire? Careful use of a propane torch would turn it into molten goo. Put a wet rag on deck below it first.

Any ideas on why the windlass suddenly switched on its own to UP only regardless of what button on the remote is pushed?

Probably a shorted control line somewhere.

Any ideas on why Lewmar would build a windlass without any means of raising or lowering the chain manually????? On the starboard side bolt that the Lewmar manual indicates you turn clockwise to manually release the gypsy - turning clockwise as hard as I can AND beating on it with a hammer did absolutely nothing. Turning counter clockwise results in teh side cover panel being removed as the nut spins off. Beneath the cover I see no means of any kind to release the gypsy.

It does have a clutch. How to release it depends which version you have. If you have the manual recovery option, you have to loosen that instead. If you don't, then the clutch could be jammed.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Should be able to remove four bolts from the cover and pull it off aft to get access to the motor and solenoid. Here's an excerpt from the parts diagram.

YES.... "Should"

The bottom right bolt is stuck and semi-stripped. There is just no way to get an allen wrench onto it such that it can be removed. We have two people trying for over 3 hours on this one bolt. IT is a no go.

We installed a snubber to take tension off the chain and we are in the process of removing the entire windlass from the mounting platform. Then we hope to be able to drill out this offending bolt to gain access to the solenoid and wiring.

I have no idea why it would suddently, all on its own, switch to UP only even if the controller is not even plugged in.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Did you try fire? Careful use of a propane torch would turn it into molten goo. Put a wet rag on deck below it first.





Probably a shorted control line somewhere.



It does have a clutch. How to release it depends which version you have. If you have the manual recovery option, you have to loosen that instead. If you don't, then the clutch could be jammed.

Considering fire if nothing else works. BUT - if we can fix teh short or whatever has it jammed in UP then the snubber remains would free themselves if the windlass would function in DOWN mode.

AS for the clutch... I see nothing that looks like a clutch and certainly nothing functions as a clutch would. We do not have any form of manually recover. From everything I can see this windlass has no clutch system nor any means to lower the chain other than getting it past the side of the gypsy and then lowering it manually.

I think I am going to be in the market for a new windlass - I hate this one!

[Jammer]

Ok the photos help. So the winch cover can't be removed because the front of the deckhouse is in the way, a consequence of the mounting location.


Once you have the clutch loose it's going to take a lot of force to rotate the gypsy with that ball of rope fiber in it. So with the side plate off it probably is free of the shaft it just won't turn because of the rope. You can try backing down hard on the rode, might be enough, or maybe get a prybar to turn it.



An alternative to consider is that you can cut away the cover in pieces with a die grinder or hacksaw to get access to the terminals. New ones are $350 so that would be a last resort.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

YES.... "Should"

The bottom right bolt is stuck and semi-stripped. There is just no way to get an allen wrench onto it such that it can be removed. We have two people trying for over 3 hours on this one bolt. IT is a no go.

Die grinder will get it with a ball burr. 5 minutes

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Ok the photos help. So the winch cover can't be removed because the front of the deckhouse is in the way, a consequence of the mounting location.


Once you have the clutch loose it's going to take a lot of force to rotate the gypsy with that ball of rope fiber in it. So with the side plate off it probably is free of the shaft it just won't turn because of the rope. You can try backing down hard on the rode, might be enough, or maybe get a prybar to turn it.



An alternative to consider is that you can cut away the cover in pieces with a die grinder or hacksaw to get access to the terminals. New ones are $350 so that would be a last resort.

Thanks for the insights....

No die grinder available and even if I had one there would be no way to access the bolt. BUT - after removing the nuts from the 4 main mounting bolts for the entire windlass we got that loose enough to wiggle and gain access to the cover bolt that would not budge. So now the cover is loose and flopping around even though the deck house prevents removal.

So I do have access to the solenoid and wiring though it is very tight and little room to maneuver.

I need to get the gypsy clear somehow so I can remove the chain and be able to test the electricals. As it is now - the instant you turn the breaker on it trips again as the windlass goes into UP and instantly is jammed and trips.

Any ideas on what exactly to test? We are going to try and somehow clear the gypsy now.

Also - no idea on any clutch or manual means of releasing gypsy tension. I see no means at all of doing this. There is no place to use a pry bar. The gypsy does not rotate clockwise except to tighten the side cover plate and counter clockwise just remove the cover. I do not think this windlass has a clutch nor any means to free fall the chain except to wiggle it out of the gypsy which is not easy.

The diagram that was posted is cropped along the edges with many part numbers missing but the handle it shows I do not have and the little pin thing that appears to go into a hole in the right side of the gypsy is not present when we remove the side cover. Part 29 that looks like a little wedge... no idea what that is, we do not have anything like that.




Terry

[donradcliffe]

RTFM. What is the model number for your windlass. If it is a H2 or H3, the nut on the starboard side IS the clutch release.

1. Back the nut off all the way.

2. Persuade the gypsy to slide on the shaft in the direction away from the windlass.

3. The Gypsy should now rotate freely.

To persuade, you need a big hammer and a man sized flat bladed screwdriver

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

RTFM. What is the model number for your windlass. If it is a H2 or H3, the nut on the starboard side IS the clutch release.

1. Back the nut off all the way.

2. Persuade the gypsy to slide on the shaft in the direction away from the windlass.

3. The Gypsy should now rotate freely.

To persuade, you need a big hammer and a man sized flat bladed screwdriver

I'll give it more of a go... but so far every attempt to turn the nut clockwise results in nothing but a busted gut. It does not turn clockwise. I will try a long bar on the huge adjustable wrench and beating on it.


BUT....



Using a small butane lighter we were able to burn and chisel away enough of the snubber to get it out of the gypsy. So now the chain is free and it's time to move on to figuring out the electrical issue.

First test --- turning the breaker on. Expectation is that the gypsy will immediately begin turning as if to raise the chain. When it is doing that, I will try disconnecting wires at the solenoid.

Gotta find a wiring diagram.

[hlev00]

Glad to see you've made some progress.

Here is a link to the manual
https://www.lewmar.com/sites/default...%20REV%20C.pdf

It will show a general wiring diagram, but the question will be how it is wired onto your boat.

Up down is accomplished by putting 12V to either the up relay or down relay that are inside the windlass housing. The remote works by bringing 12V from a common pin to either the up pin or down pin. So try removing the remote and use an ohm meter to determine if the remote is the source of the problem. When no buttons are pushed, none of the pins should show continuity. Then when one button is pushed two pins will be shorted and the other open. Then the other button will do the same with one of the first two pins and the one that was open. If you see any continuity without pressing a button, the problem is in the remote. If the remote is the problem, you might be able to take it apart and find the short. A friend had a problem where the remote failed for either up or down. He took it apart and found something corroded and soldered around the issue. IIRC he said there are some simple diodes or other components but for your purposes you just need to eliminate the short if that is the source of the problem. You can even "hot wire" by touching the pins on the socket with a jumper. Do two at a time until you find the right combination. Don't short all three at once. I don't know what might happen but I doubt it would be a good thing.

If the remote is okay, then you need to find where the short is by tracing back from the remote socket. If you are lucky, you won't need to get inside the housing.

Harry

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

I'll give it more of a go... but so far every attempt to turn the nut clockwise results in nothing but a busted gut. It does not turn clockwise. I will try a long bar on the huge adjustable wrench and beating on it.

Do NOT turn the nut clockwise. Its a normal lefty-loosey righty-tighty nut. You want to loosen it almost ot the point were you can take it off.

[hlev00]

In fact you can back it all the way off - counterclockwise. But once it is loose at all the gypsy "should" spin on its own. It may be that the jamming snubber has bent something. If you take a look at the diagram on page 18 in the H2/H3 manual I linked earlier you can see that the nut you are working on presses the cone clutch to engage the gypsy with the motor shaft.

You should be able to see a gap on the inboard side of the gypsy between it and the chrome plate (#81) that is part of the RMS / Rhode Mangement System (aka chain stripper). I had a problem once where corrosion between that plate and the housing forced the plate against the gypsy preventing it from going up or down. So check that there seems to be clearance for the gypsy to be able to rotate.

[gonesail]

speaking of long bars .. these should be standard equipment. a breaker bar is easily made of galvanized pipe .. just make sure your socket wrench will fit inside the pipe.

[Tudorsailor]

Originally Posted by hlev00

In fact you can back it all the way off - counterclockwise. But once it is loose at all the gypsy "should" spin on its own. It may be that the jamming snubber has bent something. If you take a look at the diagram on page 18 in the H2/H3 manual I linked earlier you can see that the nut you are working on presses the cone clutch to engage the gypsy with the motor shaft.

You should be able to see a gap on the inboard side of the gypsy between it and the chrome plate (#81) that is part of the RMS / Rhode Mangement System (aka chain stripper). I had a problem once where corrosion between that plate and the housing forced the plate against the gypsy preventing it from going up or down. So check that there seems to be clearance for the gypsy to be able to rotate.

Just to be clear. The big nut on the gypsy should be something you can loosen. When it all working, this is how to free drop the anchor. The nut pushes the gypsy onto the cone that is in turn attached to the shaft. If you have not had the gypsy released for some time, you will need to free it by putting a screw driver into the gap at the base of the gypsy and hammer it in until it moves away from the windlass. If you take the nut off completely you can then remove the gypsy and clean the face of the cone and the inside of the base of the gypsy. THen you will be able to let the anchor free fall.

Do you have buttons as well as a remote? Last season, one of the microswitches in the down button failed and once pressed, I was only able to stop the windlass paying out chain by turning off the breaker. You do not need to replace the whole Lewmar button. You can just replace the microswitch

Good luck