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Simi 60 · 26-06-2016, 22:27

Hi, I have a contract signed and accepted on a 60ft trawler that if the bottom checks out as good as the rest, we will be buying and using as full term liveaboard on anchor in as sheltered as possible waterways.

Looking at the ground tackle to me it looks inadequate as is typical on many boats and judging by its condition it probably hasnt been used much if at all.
Currently it has a full length of 13mm chain and a 100lb no name plow on one side and on the other side the same no name plough and shorter length of chain and a pile of large nylon rope.

I am wanting to replace the 100lb no name plough with either a manson supreme or a Boss. (Long story short is I am getting mates rates with the supplier so my buy price says it will be one of these two as they are the only anchors they supply)
They are telling me that a 150lb Supreme is 2 sizes up from what is specd or a 125lb Boss is 2 sizes up as well and that the boss is supposedly the better anchor, but I see nothing on line that really supports this.
It does seem rather ridiculously large in size and surface area compared to what is currently on board.

Has anyone here seen any testing apart from the one article where they claim to have straitened shackles?

Simi 60 · 27-06-2016, 11:31

Really, no one has anything?

four winds · 27-06-2016, 12:01

The boss may be less common than the supreme. I believe it is the newest addition to the Manson line. I believe it was response to the fitment issues on bows or bow rollers that could not accommodate the roll bar common on the new generation anchors. All of which most agree perform similarly.

Many say the need to upsize the selection is less necessary with the new generation designs.

This my experience with a right size supreme on my boat with all chain. Approaching 600 consecutive nights at anchor in a dozen different anchorages. Never an issue setting or dragging. Many storms at anchor, winds often to 30's, 40's, and to 70's a couple of times. So I consider the supreme vetted on my boat. I guess oversize is OK, but no windlass on my boat so I didn't.

Panope · 27-06-2016, 12:07

Greetings Simi,

My own research revealed that my 45 pound Manson Supreme was unreliable at resetting during my "180 degree re-set torture test". Yes, this is a test that is not very representative of real world anchoring. However, I did test other anchors that re-set immediately no matter if they rotated, tipped or were ripped from the seabed and flipped over backward. Namely, The Spade anchor, Anchor Right Excel, Anchor Right Super Sarca, and the Mantus Anchor all performed brilliantly in these tests.

I have posted over 60 videos of my anchor testing that can be found on my youtube channel. Here are 4 videos that show the Manson failing to re-set. Note: I have no financial interest in any of this... Yet

Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr37r1j7u0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd_0zzZLrLo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq77ULZCy3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvA-xMHTD7c

Simi 60 · 27-06-2016, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panope

Greetings Simi,

My own research revealed that

Thanks, I did see some of those videos, part of the reasoning to leaning towards the Boss.

ontherocks83 · 27-06-2016, 12:20

I only watched one of the videos but, why only 2.5 to 1 anchor scope on the tests? Did you do a 7 to 1 test, or even a 5 to 1?

Simi 60 · 27-06-2016, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by four winds

Many say the need to upsize the selection is less necessary with the new generation designs.

I guess oversize is OK, but no windlass on my boat so I didn't.

So they say, but given the windage on this, the opportunity to buy at around half price of retail, and having a Maxwell 3500 on deck I will be going larger.

Downside is that is considerably longer than the roller setup, so I will need to cut and reweld while on the boat when on the hard which is a shame seeing as how the whole anchor roller/backing plate setup is a work of art in itself.

Panope · 27-06-2016, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

I only watched one of the videos but, why only 2.5 to 1 anchor scope on the tests? Did you do a 7 to 1 test, or even a 5 to 1?

I focused on two scopes: 2.5 to 1 and 3.5 to 1. I chose worst case scenarios intentionally to sniff out potential problems.

Keep in mind that out here in the land of crowded anchorages, deep water and big tides, the luxury of even 5 to 1 scope is a rare event.

Also, I have become quite "burnt out" on anchor testing and simple do not have time to conduct endless variations on all these anchor tests. If someone starts to pay me some real money however, I could become re-invigorated quite quickly.

Steve

four winds · 27-06-2016, 12:41

Simi, with those qualifiers I understand your thinking.

Would even the recommended size still require bow mods? If so, it would be a tough call for me to go the extra mile, because of my exerience so far.

Simi 60 · 27-06-2016, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by four winds

Would even the recommended size still require bow mods?.

Unfortunately yes.
The shank on these generic ploughs is a whole lot shorter than even an undersized supreme or boss.

Sizing chart claims an 80lb plough is suitable for a 60fter and these look like 80's.
Thats a shank length of 840mm using the manson chart

The 125 Boss is..
Hold on, I might be OK here, The shank is 904mm at its longest point and given its shape it may not even need to come in that far.

I was looking at overall length of 1400mm before.

Picture below is 125lb. Looking at the picture of the setup above I may be more concerned about height issues.

Simi 60 · 28-06-2016, 04:35

Well, got on to Manson NZ and after a bit of back and forth giving boat size, weight, photo's to givean idea of windage and pics of bow roller setup and more than enough opportunity to suggest a far larger anchor to make more $$ from me they suggested a 150lb supreme as a belt and braces approach.

I am good with that.
I can never see myself being in a position to short scope it and given the size of the boat intend to always be in plenty of water and space as far away from others as possible.

ozsailer · 28-06-2016, 04:52

Hi Simi, I am a tad biased towards the Manson supreme simply as I own one. I have a 12 metre catamaran with a 45 lb manson supreme which has now been on the boat for two years. In that time we have cruising approximatley 4000 NM and stayed in quite a few ancorages of different depths and bottoms.

The things that I have found in the Mansom supreme,
1) If I have set my achor correctly we have never ever dragged to date. Not so with our old Lewmar Delta.

2) We use all chain 10mm rode.

3) We have been anchored in winds to 35 knots. No dramas

4) We have found that the Manson does not like sea grass and takes a while to find an area where it will grab. Not a lot of sea grass where we normally cruise (east coast of Australia) so I can put with that

5) We have anchored in strong tidal flows wher the anchor has always reset at change of tide.

6) I believe I would have been equally happy with a rocna or Sarca exel or a few of the other new generation anchors.

7) we have friends with a Manson Boss anchor on their Lepard 48 catamaran. They are super happy with their anchor and its ability to hold in all conditions. Biggest complaint they have is sometimes its holding capacity is so great it takes a while to get it to release.

Hope this is of some assistance.

Greg H
Sunshine
Lagoon 310

Snowpetrel · 28-06-2016, 05:38

Some boss and supreme results in soft mud here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1621569

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Simi 60 · 28-06-2016, 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Some boss and supreme results in soft mud here

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1621569

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Test paid for by Fortress?
Do I need to ask what the result was?