Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

[EighthWonder]

Originally Posted by chrisjs

No body that I saw!!! Mind you the current there is pretty strong!

Our Rocna is a 40kg (88lb) with about 350ft of BBB 3/8 chain. I usually go heavy with scope, but we have weathered some good blows with that set-up. Our boat is a Selene 47 (50ft overall) with approx. 65,000lb displacement.

Heavy Girl...you might wanna take a few bottles off the wine rack!

I have a lewmar 201 with only about 50' of 5/16 to start. I'm hoping it can lift it up the 7'off the water to the roller!

[EighthWonder]

Originally Posted by canadianllama

Wow eightwonder, how bigs your boat? That's a big anchor. My manual windlass (right arm, left arm, back) cringed when i saw it :-)

My First Mate cringed too! I've been told I'm the one on the pulpit now!

52' @ 50,000 pnds. Top of the fly bridge is over 20' off the water...so lots of windage too!

[N4712]

Were getting an 154lb Rocna, a size up from what would of sufficed. But we'll sleep good at night.

[EighthWonder]

Originally Posted by N4712

Were getting an 154lb Rocna, a size up from what would of sufficed. But we'll sleep good at night.

Wow...
Sometimes size does matter eh? lol

[Boatguy30]

Huh, 45 lb manson held my 35,000 ketch in 50 knot winds no problem. Seems these cheap Chinese anchors are leading to the "supersize" syndrome.

[Boatguy30]

Of course the Manson is first world quality, so you can go with a more modest size.

[N4712]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Huh, 45 lb manson held my 35,000 ketch in 50 knot winds no problem. Seems these cheap Chinese anchors are leading to the "supersize" syndrome.

Were 90,000lbs.

[EighthWonder]

Originally Posted by N4712

Were 90,000lbs.

Priceless

[N4712]

Originally Posted by EighthWonder

Priceless

Now looking, leaning toward 100,000 loaded up with food, fuel, water, etc.

[hpeer]

Our big boat (44' 40,000lb) came with a 45lb CQR. While it may have worked OK in the islands I was a joke in Chesapeak mud. I uped to a 66lb Spade as that was the biggest I could fit on the sprit. Not bad, but not oversized either.

To my chagrin I had trouble getting it to set in a foreign port. Poor bottom no doubt, slick mud over a rock ledge? I don't know, but it was both embarrassing and unsettling. I do know some locals came by laughing at me for trying to anchor in that spot. Apparently I wasn't the first.

Then I had to replace the sprit, so I reworked it to handle a big roll bar anchor. I now have a 125lb Mantus, but have yet to use it.

That is clearly big for the boat, but I figure there are times when things just don't go right and in that case my bigger anchor will give me some margin. Would it have worked in that bad place above? Clearly I don't know, but it could not be any worse. The price was right and I'm not convinced of any significant performance differences in this new family of roll bar designs.

The Spade is on the spare roller, 40lb Danforth on the transom, and a 70 lb Luke for going North again in the basement.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Our big boat (44' 40,000lb) came with a 45lb CQR. While it may have worked OK in the islands I was a joke in Chesapeak mud. I uped to a 66lb Spade as that was the biggest I could fit on the sprit. Not bad, but not oversized either.

To my chagrin I had trouble getting it to set in a foreign port. Poor bottom no doubt, slick mud over a rock ledge? I don't know, but it was both embarrassing and unsettling. I do know some locals came by laughing at me for trying to anchor in that spot. Apparently I wasn't the first.

Then I had to replace the sprit, so I reworked it to handle a big roll bar anchor. I now have a 125lb Mantus, but have yet to use it.

That is clearly big for the boat, but I figure there are times when things just don't go right and in that case my bigger anchor will give me some margin. Would it have worked in that bad place above? Clearly I don't know, but it could not be any worse. The price was right and I'm not convinced of any significant performance differences in this new family of roll bar designs.

The Spade is on the spare roller, 40lb Danforth on the transom, and a 70 lb Luke for going North again in the basement.

Interesting development in anchor choice and size:

In terms of time:

First a 45lb CQR (I appreciate not your choice), then a 66lb Spade now a 125lb Mantus. (The Spade must look like a toy?)

As a kedge, a Danforth (steel) 40lb - presumably just to haul off. But a 70lb Luke must have the surface area of a teaspoon (compared with the Mantus, or even the Spade).

I'm guessing that finances might be against changing the Danforth to the same size Fortress and increasing the size of the Luke?

It will be interesting to hear your opinions in the fullness of time.

Jonathan

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by JonJo

First a 45lb CQR (I appreciate not your choice), then a 66lb Spade now a 125lb Mantus. (The Spade must look like a toy?)

It is common for cruising boats to increase the size of their anchor with each change.

There is a message in this

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

It is common for cruising boats to increase the size of their anchor with each change.

There is a message in this

You should become a marketing guru - Anchor makers cannot believe their good luck

Jonathan

[hpeer]

Johnathan,

Sure.

The boat (circa 1985) came with the CQR and two 40(ish) lb Danforth type anchors. The Danforths had been sitting in water for a wile and had some heavy rust. Theses I cleaned up and epoxy coated.

The anchor rollers were under the sprit and the shank fed through the sprit, limiting the HEIGHT of shank I could use, and precluding any roll bar type. After a LOT of research I fiund the best a could do was a 66pound Spade. I don't mean to dismiss theSpade in any way, the limitation was due to the anchoring platform design.

The reason the Spade works is because of the three piece shank, it is lower Than say a comperable Deltawith a simple hunk of plate for shank.

The Spades one weakness is in "pounds per square inch presented." Because of its density, lead, it puts a lot of pressure on the tip and will penetrate well. Fine and dandy if the bottom material has some cohesion. But in a very loose bottom, it has a relatively small area to push against the loose muck.

But I ran into a probably pretty unusual situation where the bottom material had very little cohesion, LOOSE muck.

When I had the chance ( it rusted through!) to rebuild the sprit I reworked the anchoring moving the rollers so that I could handle a big roll bar. That being done,I bought a big roll bar. I wanted an anchor to complement the Spade. The Mantus does that. It's strength of design is that it presents a lot of surface area for the weight, so it works well in loose goo.

Why 125 lb? Well why not? I could fit it, the price was not a lot more than the recommended "storm” anchor, we have a big windlass (Lofrans Tigress) What is the down side?

I would rather have a 88 lb Spade, but I am satisfied with what I have.

As to the Luke, it was at a consignment shop for a good price. At 70 pounds it is about as much as I can handle reasonably anyway. A 70lb Luke is infinitely better than a 0 pound Luke, which was option B. Yes, it has small surface area, buy those long gangly flukes can catch in between rocks. So the Luke has another attribute neither the Spade or Mantus has, it requires a very large appature to pass through.

In Newfoundland local anchors are homemade grapples. I have a pic of one made of rail and rebar on a 22' boat, it must weigh 180 pounds! But that was extreme. Still most of the working anchors have very little surface area, but lots of flukes to tangle in things. Just an observation.

It's not a perfect set up, it evolved. That's how. A combination of need, opportunity, planning and $. Just real life stuff.

.................

To be a devil, some day I'm gonna start a thread ..........

"what would save more lives, $1,000 spent on a next gen anchor, or on an Automatic Electronic Defibulator?"

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Johnathan,

Sure.

The boat (circa 1985) came with the CQR and two 40(ish) lb Danforth type anchors. The Danforths had been sitting in water for a wile and had some heavy rust. Theses I cleaned up and epoxy coated.

The anchor rollers were under the sprit and the shank fed through the sprit, limiting the HEIGHT of shank I could use, and precluding any roll bar type. After a LOT of research I fiund the best a could do was a 66pound Spade. I don't mean to dismiss theSpade in any way, the limitation was due to the anchoring platform design.

The reason the Spade works is because of the three piece shank, it is lower Than say a comperable Deltawith a simple hunk of plate for shank.

The Spades one weakness is in "pounds per square inch presented." Because of its density, lead, it puts a lot of pressure on the tip and will penetrate well. Fine and dandy if the bottom material has some cohesion. But in a very loose bottom, it has a relatively small area to push against the loose muck.

But I ran into a probably pretty unusual situation where the bottom material had very little cohesion, LOOSE muck.

When I had the chance ( it rusted through!) to rebuild the sprit I reworked the anchoring moving the rollers so that I could handle a big roll bar. That being done,I bought a big roll bar. I wanted an anchor to complement the Spade. The Mantus does that. It's strength of design is that it presents a lot of surface area for the weight, so it works well in loose goo.

Why 125 lb? Well why not? I could fit it, the price was not a lot more than the recommended "storm” anchor, we have a big windlass (Lofrans Tigress) What is the down side?

I would rather have a 88 lb Spade, but I am satisfied with what I have.

As to the Luke, it was at a consignment shop for a good price. At 70 pounds it is about as much as I can handle reasonably anyway. A 70lb Luke is infinitely better than a 0 pound Luke, which was option B. Yes, it has small surface area, buy those long gangly flukes can catch in between rocks. So the Luke has another attribute neither the Spade or Mantus has, it requires a very large appature to pass through.

In Newfoundland local anchors are homemade grapples. I have a pic of one made of rail and rebar on a 22' boat, it must weigh 180 pounds! But that was extreme. Still most of the working anchors have very little surface area, but lots of flukes to tangle in things. Just an observation.

It's not a perfect set up, it evolved. That's how. A combination of need, opportunity, planning and $. Just real life stuff.

.................

To be a devil, some day I'm gonna start a thread ..........

"what would save more lives, $1,000 spent on a next gen anchor, or on an Automatic Electronic Defibulator?"

Real stuff is a real nuisance - we all need clean slates and big wallets.

The evolution you describe cannot really be faulted, we all have personal preferences and it would be most boring if we all thought the same.

I might challenge your comment about the Spade shank and I would value an independent view. Look at a comparably weighted Delta (to your Spade) and go to the Lewmar website where all the dimensions are available to all and sundry. Draw up the Delta shank, full size, and then lay your Spade shank on top - I think you will find they are surprisingly similar, the Spade has curves to join up the various angles - but otherwise they are virtually identical. If you were really bored you could take a whole variety of anchors and do the same thing - to find that the Delta shank is the father to them all. Some like the Mantus do not need that selfrighting function (as they have a roll bar) so they are using the self launch idea (of the Delta) but look at non roll bar equivalents and they are angle for angle, length for length - good copies.

But if you want surface area vs weight - difficult to go past a Fortress?

Jonathan