Measure length of chain

[newhaul]

Jim ok if you say so however these are just what.a proper rigger will use .
Also these are used to connect two shots of chain .

[StuM]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Jim ok if you say so however these are just what.a proper rigger will use .
Also these are used to connect two shots of chain .

They are waaaay under strength.

As an example, the WLL of the 3/8" links shown is 1200-1250 lb.
Compare that to the WLL of G4 3/8" chain at around 5400 lb.

I certainly wouldn't use those links.

Added: comparable"two piece" links come in at around 2600- 2800 lb - which is about the WLL of G30/BBB chain of the same size.

http://www.campbellchainandfittings....s-per-box.html

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Connecting-Links-WP161108/_/N-mtk?breadcrumbCatId=4176&s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1DJP8_AS01?$smthumb$

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/seafi...05_154_002_004

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by StuM

They are waaaay under strength.

As an example, the WLL of the 3/8" links shown is 1200-1250 lb.
Compare that to the WLL of G4 3/8" chain at around 5400 lb.

I certainly wouldn't use those links.

Added: comparable"two piece" links come in at around 2600- 2800 lb - which is about the WLL of G30/BBB chain of the same size.

http://www.campbellchainandfittings....s-per-box.html

https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Connecting-Links-WP161108/_/N-mtk?breadcrumbCatId=4176&s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1DJP8_AS01?$smthumb$

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/seafi...05_154_002_004

Stu your link to the Campbell repair links is the one I thought I linked to but my phone struck again . I meant to link to the riveted links you linked to. So I owe Jim an apology I should have checked my posted link just after I posted it to confirm. Thank you for the catch.

[TheThunderbird]

In theory, only 3 marks are essential

A) 10 to 15m, depending on your area, for touching the bottom
B) 35 to 40m, your average payout
C) 10m before the bitter end, or the splice to rope

All the rest is , in a way, personal lore


Wireless operation of windlass is a luxury i can't live without......

Painting the chain? A WASTE of time and brush

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

In theory, only 3 marks are essential

A) 10 to 15m, depending on your area, for touching the bottom
B) 35 to 40m, your average payout
C) 10m before the bitter end, or the splice to rope

All the rest is , in a way, personal lore


Wireless operation of windlass is a luxury i can't live without......

Painting the chain? A WASTE of time and brush

Three marks? You need to get out more, T-bird!

We've anchored in depths ranging from ~10 feet (rarely) up to 85 feet (even more rarely). In such cases, and those not quite so extreme, I was glad to have my marking system which is based on 25 foot increments. Your three would have been kinda useless to me.

(I apologize for the non-metric nomenclature. I'm pretty bi-lingual, but somehow I can't shake using feet for depths!).

Jim

[a64pilot]

I usually anchor in 10', I could almost always go shallower, but it makes me nervous so I don't.
I don't think I have ever anchored in deeper than maybe 20'
I don't get out much

[MV Wanderlust]

Great suggestions. And always a good idea to inspect it when you can. Our boat came with a label on the winch control that it lets out 60 feet every 60 seconds. So, we let it out for 50 seconds, used a colored zip tie, then another colored zip tie every ten seconds. Perhaps not the most scientific method but it seems to be pretty darned accurate in practical applications.

[TheThunderbird]

Jim
I was pushing a concept to the extreme. I think that with 85' bottom you paid all of your line, didn't you?

My marks are multiple of either 13m (42') or 17m (55') .
Prime numbers provide good spacing (no repetitions) and l DON'T COME UP WITH TOO MANY MARKS, which is the annoyance l wanted to avoid...

I ask my crew for "Two red marks " (110') or "Three yellow marks" (126')... depending on depth and desireable ratio...

Very workable!

Let me stress, to anyone 's benefit, that the first 13' (4m) from windlass to waterline must NOT be accounted for the measure for chain released (imo)

:-)

Indeed, a cultural bias forces us at reasoning in the more familiar metric system to us. Our maps are in meters. Actually fathoms was a superb measure :-)

[StuM]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

Jim
I was pushing a concept to the extreme. I think that with 85' bottom you paid all of your line, didn't you?

My marks are multiple of either 13m (42') or 17m (55') .
Prime numbers provide good spacing (no repetitions) and l DON'T COME UP WITH TOO MANY MARKS, which is the annoyance l wanted to avoid...

Good spacing? anything from 1 to 12 meters apart in the first 50 odd meters of chain?

Not too many marks? 12 v 9 marks (@ 10m) on 100m of chain?

I ask my crew for "Two red marks " (110') or "Three yellow marks" (126')... depending on depth and desireable ratio...

As long as you can do the prime number arithmetic at O'Dark thirty

[TheThunderbird]

13m
17m

2marks
26m
34m

3marks
39m
51m

2+2marks
26+34 = 60m

I have 70m (210') chain

[barnakiel]

You can measure by letting all chain out then time the winch.

This is accurate to within 5ft.

b.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

Jim
I was pushing a concept to the extreme. I think that with 85' bottom you paid all of your line, didn't you?

My marks are multiple of either 13m (42') or 17m (55') .
Prime numbers provide good spacing (no repetitions) and l DON'T COME UP WITH TOO MANY MARKS, which is the annoyance l wanted to avoid...

I ask my crew for "Two red marks " (110') or "Three yellow marks" (126')... depending on depth and desireable ratio...

Very workable!

Let me stress, to anyone 's benefit, that the first 13' (4m) from windlass to waterline must NOT be accounted for the measure for chain released (imo)

:-)

Indeed, a cultural bias forces us at reasoning in the more familiar metric system to us. Our maps are in meters. Actually fathoms was a superb measure :-)

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

13m
17m

2marks
26m
34m

3marks
39m
51m

2+2marks
26+34 = 60m

I have 70m (210') chain

Works for you??? OK, then. For me, mind boggling...

And in the instance of anchoring in 85', we used all our ~280 feet of chain and about 50' of the 300 ' of line spliced to the end of the chain (IIRC). This was in the lagoon of TaHa'a in the Societies. And FWIW, it was the only time in the 17 years we cruised in that boat that we got into the rope rode. Consequently, I've not bothered to add to the 275' of chain on this boat.

And also, what in your opinion was so superb about the fathom?

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

Jim


Let me stress, to anyone 's benefit, that the first 13' (4m) from windlass to waterline must NOT be accounted for the measure for chain released (imo)

:-)

Indeed, a cultural bias forces us at reasoning in the more familiar metric system to us. Our maps are in meters. Actually fathoms was a superb measure :-)

The not counting the first 2 fathoms of chain is a bit vessel specific. IMO
On my boat I have 25 fathoms of chain and no windlass. I usually try to anchor in 2 to 3 fathoms of water and have 1/2 fathom from bow chocks to the waterline.

[TheThunderbird]

Yes Jim,

any boat's specific. No windlass means you work on top of the chain drop.
( l did it. Problem is when boat hives, you have to wait, hoping to keep arms attached to shoulders :-) )

Any measuring system must provide accuracy (a good scale) and relevance of the reading.

E.g. to an engineer, or to a physicist, 3,1......3,09...... 3,099... have different meaning and relevance.

Back to boats,
Feet make you work with the many tens, not to say the few hundreds, for chain length and coastline approach.
Meters, get in the range of few tens, say 5-50

Fathoms? We can anchor in 3 to 5 fathoms. A better scale, easy readings..

Although i have a couple of talking radio, problem is communication with the person dropping the chain. I dont get mixed up with meters, mispelling (yelling) etc... l order by the COLOR (have 2) and MARKS (2 OR 3).
THE SINGLE MARK is used to know when we are close to move away, and when the anchor touches bottom.


IF I MARK 40m and get confirmation, still I have to check myself.
IF I AM TOLD "YES SIR, TWO MARKS, YELLOW" l am fine!!!

To me, it is strong logic behind it and l love Math...

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

Yes Jim,

any boat's specific. No windlass means you work on top of the chain drop.
( l did it. Problem is when boat hives, you have to wait, hoping to keep arms attached to shoulders :-) )

Any measuring system must provide accuracy (a good scale) and relevance of the reading.

E.g. to an engineer, or to a physicist, 3,1......3,09...... 3,099... have different meaning and relevance.

Back to boats,
Feet make you work with the many tens, not to say the few hundreds, for chain length and coastline approach.
Meters, get in the range of few tens, say 5-50

Fathoms? We can anchor in 3 to 5 fathoms. A better scale, easy readings..

Although i have a couple of talking radio, problem is communication with the person dropping the chain. I dont get mixed up with meters, mispelling (yelling) etc... l order by the COLOR (have 2) and MARKS (2 OR 3).
THE SINGLE MARK is used to know when we are close to move away, and when the anchor touches bottom.


IF I MARK 40m and get confirmation, still I have to check myself.
IF I AM TOLD "YES SIR, TWO MARKS, YELLOW" l am fine!!!

To me, it is strong logic behind it and l love Math...

t-bird, I'm afraid that I still don't get your "strong logic", but if it works for you, then it is a good system of marking... for you.

But for anchoring in widely varying depths, I need a uniform and reasonably closely spaced set of marks to satisfy MY desire to manage the rode. I don't get communication issues because I'm the one deploying the chain, and I check the depth before going forward to drop the gear. I'll just stick to marks every 25 feet, with a color coding that I can remember. Has worked for a long time, and even with encroaching dementia, it still works!

Jim