Minimum anchors size, what’s the point?

[Cheechako]

Cruising the Carribean I never had a properly sized Delta drag. But I did have it come free from wind reversal. There's a difference. For straight line holding power a Danforth is the winner by a very wide margin.
But the devil is in the details, and wind reversals and bottom make up are important. For instance, nothing but weight is going to help in a few inches of sand over hard pan... and 200# may not be enough! You might get lucky though and have a fluke catch on a bump in the hard pan with anchors like a Bruce or old Northhill.

[Suijin]

Since I upsized from a 44 lb Rocna to a 55 lb Rocna. I’ve noticed a distinct improvement in performance, at least with respect to setting and holding with shorter scope and when anchoring in mud. Most it’s seen yet is 30 knots.

You can never be too rich or good looking or have too big an anchor.

Racing, you want the smallest anchor that will keep you from going backwards when the wind dies and the current is against you. That’s all an anchor is good for to a racer.

[Viking Sailor]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Since I upsized from a 44 lb Rocna to a 55 lb Rocna. I’ve noticed a distinct improvement in performance, at least with respect to setting and holding with shorter scope and when anchoring in mud. Most it’s seen yet is 30 knots.

You can never be too rich or good looking or have too big an anchor.

Racing, you want the smallest anchor that will keep you from going backwards when the wind dies and the current is against you. That’s all an anchor is good for to a racer.

When I went from a 20 kg Bruce to a 30 kg Bruce, I noticed a significant improvement in setting and holding performance. I believe that it is the ability of the heavier anchor to penetrate the seabed that is responsible for this improved performance. It appears that 25 kg should be the minimum weight for a cruising anchor.

[james247]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

For the new generation anchors (Rocna, Mantus, Manson) I go one size smaller unless it's at the low end of the chart already. It should be noted that weight reduction is a huge factor in all my decisions.

I have never dragged my one size bigger cqr connected to the one size bigger chain. I never exceed 3 to 1 depth length of chain ratio.
I sleep well. I always set an electronic anchor watch alarm and a wind speed alarm. 25 tons of 53 ft ketch. One day when my cqr wears out I would change to a more modern design. But likely I will be in a pine box before the cqr wears out.

[RichMac]

Originally Posted by LongRange

When we purchased our 45' monohull, it came with a 20Kg Delta. We then bought a 33Kg Rocna (one size too high, by the Rocna sizing chart)

Our new Oceanis 45 also came with a Delta 20kg. We then fitted a 33kg Rocna, oversized by their charts. But we had to modify the bow fitting, as it wouldn’t lift over one small roller. The big Rocna makes us much more secure than the boats around us, but we are not as safe as I would like.

I would actually like a bigger anchor. In a vicious 3am thunderstorm in Greece, we dragged against the rocks. After a terrifying 15 mins we managed to get off, amazingly with minor damage. The next anchor size up could have prevented that, for the sake of an extra 10kg on the bow.

The anchor makers should recommend bigger anchors for boats that are anchoring in all conditions. And the yacht manufacturers should modify their bow fittings so that bigger anchors can easily be fitted if the owners prefer.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by RichMac

There’s a popular idea that anchors should be minimum size, just big enough and no more.

I have never heard that. Maybe that's popular with racers? I have only heard the opposite. Get one size bigger than the chart says. Or the biggest one you, your bow, your chain and nylon rode (if you have it,) your shackles and swivels, your cleat or bitt, and/or windlass can handle.

[thinwater]

I can't speak for charter yachts, but for some we are asking the wrong question.


"I just paid $150/pound for my vacuum bagged, carbon fiber performance boat and I have no intention of anchoring out in the boondocks. I'm going to stay in nice marinas. So why on earth would I hang a $150 x 40 pound = $6,000 dollar penalty up front that I will never use? I might as well have skipped the carbon and the vacuum bagging, and gone with a fiberglass lead mine."


Just sayin', it depends on how you look at it. Some days I wear my cruiser hat and carry 3 anchors and an all-chain (high tensile) rode. Some days I use an alloy anchor with Dyneema and rope. It just depends.

[Mr B]

5 Ton Cat. The anchors that came with it was a 15 KG Chinese Bruce, Totally Useless as it just dragged and would not set,
The S 1600 Danforth was good but some times dragged,
Change of tide, It got rocks jammed in the clevis pin and would not reset,
I made a new modern type anchor, I havent tried it yet, But a third of the weight is on the point of it,
I did have to make a new bow roller and holder for it,
Im not worried about the weight of it, As my body weight dont make my bows sink when I stand on the bows,
It will handle the weight of the anchor with no problems,
Its about 75 Lb my new anchor, It should hold me where I park my boat,
Im over dragging anchors,
I also use 150 feet of all chain on it,

[sailorboy1]

I am always amazed at how small of an anchor a lot of boats have. And it it really scares the hell out of me when one of those anchors next to me on a weekend, and turns into a 3 boat raft up!

[Steve Bedford]

“The anchor makers should recommend bigger anchors for boats that are anchoring in all conditions. And the yacht manufacturers should modify their bow fittings so that bigger anchors can easily be fitted if the owners prefer.”

Some anchor manufacturers indeed do recommend larger anchors. Our company has a much more conservative sizing protocol than many other companies and in many cases, “we pay for that in criticism and doubt!”

We are in the safe anchoring business in the most severe conditions. We are not in the lighter weight in order to race business. Some folks hear our size recommendation and “assume” we must not be as good because another company sized their boat with a lighter version anchor. Then that potential customer posts that belief on a forum, others read that, and that misunderstood belief becomes a fact for others. Challenge for sure but we deal with that and will not compromise on our sizing beliefs.

I do wish boat manufacturers would be a little more accomodating for a wider range of anchors but the manufacturers have priorities as well. Those priorities are first and foremost are to sell boats. Put a small shiny anchor on a bow and the boat looks bigger and “cooler.” We all see the pics in magazines and many folks who use their boats for anchoring overnight would never think to trust their million dollar investment to that the small “bling” that came with the boat.

Steve

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Steve Bedford

.. Those priorities are first and foremost are to sell boats. Put a small shiny anchor on a bow and the boat looks bigger and “cooler.” ...
Steve

I think he's onto something there. Boat show anchors are always comically tiny, like the Ancient Chinese fashion of binding women's feet to make them look smaller. A neat little Delta-style anchor must sell boats. It's streamlined and does not detract from the lines of the boat. Same with small deck cleats.



And yet those of us that anchor more frequently like the look of a larger, well-worn galvanized anchor. It simply looks "right" to our eyes, before we even get to consciously thinking about how it would hold the boat.

[RichMac]

Originally Posted by Steve Bedford

“Some folks hear our size recommendation and “assume” we must not be as good because another company sized their boat with a lighter version anchor.

That’s a valid point, companies under-sizing their anchor recommendations to show they have a better design. It worked for me 25 years ago when I bought my first Delta, the lighter weight was appealing with a racing boat and hand-pulled anchor.

That marketing is absolute nonsense for larger cruising boats with windlasses, they should be trying to sell bigger anchors instead! Cruising boats will encounter all sorts of conditions, and security is the absolute priority.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I am always amazed at how small of an anchor a lot of boats have. And it it really scares the hell out of me when one of those anchors next to me on a weekend, and turns into a 3 boat raft up!

It’s all fun and games, and highly entertaining when their hook breaks free and the whole thing starts to drift away — as long as the raft doesn’t drift down on your boat, of course.

Here I watched a four-boat raft break free and start heading out to sea. One person finally emerged from the boats (just as I was heading out in my dingy), and got things under control. Hours of fun…

[rognvald]

The anchor is not the only consideration for a good nights sleep. The size and amount of chain you have are equally important--- especially if you have a chain/nylon setup. We use a 32 lb Sascot with 40 feet of 3/8" chain/300 feet 7/16" nylon rode on a 34-foot boat that displaces 11,400 dry. The chain length and weight are very important so that there is enough weight under load to keep the angle as low as possible to prevent tripping/dragging. We have only dragged once with this setup in a 70 knot blow off Useppa Island, Florida in a loose gravel/sand bottom. However, after dragging 30 feet it did reset and we sat out the blow. And, there are some of us who still pull our hooks and an oversized anchor is a threat to safety when pulling in a strong tidal current or storm conditions. Bigger is not always better. Rognvald

[hpeer]

I’ll suggest a new rule of thumb for figuring (next gen) anchor size:

3kg/ton

33’ - 8 ton - 20kg / 45# Rocha
44’ - 20 ton - 55kg / 125# Mantus

Contrary to what I’ve done I would suggest going heavier/ton for smaller vessels. A 10kg anchor will never penetrate weed as well as a 20kg anchor. So anchor size should not be lineary proportionate to displacement.

AND when you get stuck in tight anchorage with poor holding with the next anchorage 3 hours away, as the sun is setting, well you are just happier with a BFA (portable mooring) to hang on with short scope.

Yes there are some special circumstances when a big anchor is a liability, but those are a small percentage of anchoring. Playing the numbers game, I’ve had several circumstances when I blessed my BFA, so far none when it contributed to the problem (yet I carry at least one “lunch hook and a Danforth for special occassions).

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