Modern Day Anchors

[JonJo]

Gary,

Was yours that lovely Salthouse at Nelson Bay! Down on the end of one of the arms before the fuel dock. Nice yacht, no wonder you wanted a performance anchor! If its the same, where do you keep the 73'?

Originally Posted by gary wahlstedt

I am new to this forum and i have read with interest about the Sarca anchors.
I discovered the Sarca anchors about 6 years ago and have several boats which all have Sarca anchors.
My first Sarca was on a 48" Riv Flybridge Cruiser, it was so good when I bought my next boat a 54 Salthouse fly bridge cruiser the first thing I did was put a Sarca excell on it.
I have a 13' dingy that also has a Sarca on it.
I have just changed boats again to a 73 Horizon and I am about to put a Sarca Excell in Stainless.
I can only talk from my experience but I wouldnt have any thing else on my boats.
I find Rex at Anchor right just a real honest bloke to tells it as it is and his service is fantastic.
there web site is anchoright.com.au.
happy days
Gary

[Olesargesas]

Why I use a heavier than specified anchor.

I am hoping some of my Kiwi cousins can come in and substantiate what I say below about my NZ experiences.

Back in the early 80's I had a 52' semi displacement Warwick flybridge cruiser that we cruised every weekend, frequenting Great Barrier Island and Wihikie Island anchorages. Again CQR on the bow.

The difference being the amount of boats v's good anchorages compared to Australia.

When anchoring in the western bay of Great Barrier Island, or west bay of Wihikie, you predominantly had 100 boats cramed into a couple of acre bay.

Anchoring style was you pulled up level to the stern and central to the two boats ahead of you (who were usually maximum 30m apart), drop the pick leting out 4 or 5 scopes pull in hard and then reduce to 2 scopes at high tide depth.

This was the norm, as such a good anchor and good hold essencial. Regardless how an individual anchored the next ones in would anchor as above and the person not conforming would soon be surrounded.

If you had a mule of a boat that swung majorly different to others, or had an inadequate anchor to be able to use reduced scope, then you were soon in a position where you would have to pull anchor and move out.

Then when I started boating in cyclone areas, I found bigger is definately better for sleeping at night espacially with the luxury of being able to use as much scope as you want to within reason due to the size of anchorages at the islands and creeks and the relative number of boats.

Now with a the Ultra High Holding Power Excel made from the strongest materials practicable, sized on what I would have used in a CQR, I sleep even better.

This is my way and I'm very very happy.

[Kettlewell]

The Rocna and Supreme are both sold internationally and together achieve about 30% of the poll. This presumably covers sales, largely in the English speaking world (because the poll is in English) of N Am, Europe (but mostly UK) and Oz + NZ.

Are you writing about the poll done on this forum? You can't learn anything from that--not scientific at all, too easy to game. It really depends on where you are I suppose, but my own non-scientific observation indicates that the vast majority of cruising boats still use CQRs, Bruces, Deltas, and various knock offs, with Danforths and Fortresses as secondaries mostly. However, the new generation has been gaining ground. I see a fair number of Rocnas, a few Spades, and only an occasional Manson. I don't think there is any reliable way to come up with accurate numbers on how many boats are using what anchors.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Olesargesas

This is my way and I'm very very happy.

Tell us how your anchor was key to meeting your wife or how it helped you win the national lottery jackpot!

[Olesargesas]

Jedi Now that would be a story.

Kindest

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Are you writing about the poll done on this forum? You can't learn anything from that--not scientific at all, too easy to game. It really depends on where you are I suppose, but my own non-scientific observation indicates that the vast majority of cruising boats still use CQRs, Bruces, Deltas, and various knock offs, with Danforths and Fortresses as secondaries mostly. However, the new generation has been gaining ground. I see a fair number of Rocnas, a few Spades, and only an occasional Manson. I don't think there is any reliable way to come up with accurate numbers on how many boats are using what anchors.

I was simply trying to balance Cotemar's assertions. If my comment is invalid, then so is Cotemar's - and no-one objected to his suggestions (made a number of times).

Here I see only an occasional Rocna, Supreme virtually no Danforths (original or copy or variant - they are most notable by their absence). I think I have seen, here, maybe 4 Spades in the last 5 years. Virtually every new yacht that is commissioned now carries a Delta, they are competitively priced - and most owners simply do not bother to change. Older yachts might carry Bruce or CQR (and they do not care either). But there is a change, here.

[Olesargesas]

When you consider the material cost of a modern day galve anchor is only 10% of the sale vale, the balance being labour and intellectual property margin. Then consider the ultimate anchor such as a full titanium (40kg equivilent) 20kg for A$1800, that is $700 for material and $1100 for labour and IP / margin.

Half the weight, great strength, non corrosive. That is if you really want / need a lightweight anchor, personally I do not.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Olesargesas

When you consider the material cost of a modern day galve anchor is only 10% of the sale vale, the balance being labour and intellectual property margin. Then consider the ultimate anchor such as a full titanium (40kg equivilent) 20kg for A$1800, that is $700 for material and $1100 for labour and IP / margin.

Half the weight, great strength, non corrosive. That is if you really want / need a lightweight anchor, personally I do not.

I do not recall which yacht but one of the Vendee Globe yachts was sponsored by a French naval contractor - all high tech stuff. They put a lot of effort and resource into it and came up with a titantium fin for the keel. It snapped.

If you have your anchors fabricated in China the costs are lower than 10% (and that includes labour). There is a bit of transportation - but the rest is margin - think of the selling price of some anchors that are made in China. Manson make in NZ, Fortress in USA, Anchor Right, Oz.

[Kettlewell]

Virtually every new yacht that is commissioned now carries a Delta, they are competitively priced - and most owners simply do not bother to change.

Yes, I suspect price and availability have a lot to do with anchor selection by manufacturers, and you can see there really isn't any incentive for them to search for a superior holding anchor. A boatbuilder needs and wants one that will fit comfortably in the roller, which may just be a standard off-the-shelf one, and Deltas seem to do well at this. There used to be more of a country bias, but these days we see more NZ and Aussie equipment here than we did in the past--I suspect that a bunch of it is made in China anyway so can just be dumped in a container bringing over computers or something else. CQRs are now very expensive here.

Just for kicks, here are some price comparisons from the Defender catalog of genuine anchors--no knock-offs. All 45-pounders (or closest equivalent): CQR $838.75, Manson Boss $574.99, Manson Supreme $474.99, Fortress FX-37 $474.99, Rocna $419.99, Delta $365.82, Danforth Hi-Tensile (35 lbs.) $359.99, Claw $133.99. You can see why a lot of boaters, not knowing any better, go for the Claw.

I had to fudge things a bit on the Danforth and the Fortress as they don't match up with weights to the others, but I think they are roughly equivalent in terms of holding power, though some would argue that you need to go up a size or two in the CQR, making them even more expensive. No wonder CQRs are fading fast.

[JonJo]

Kettlewell,

Interesting prices.

I suspect that if you are a boatbuilder (they are a dying breed in Oz) or an importer (of yachts) then if you are buying a few then the prices of the Delta are even lower - but this is just a guess.

A 45lb Delta here, Whitworth's (2012) catalogue, would be A$419 and a 45lb Supreme A$649! The G-37 is A$449 (nothing else directly comparable is quoted). Prices might have changed since 2012. We have a 10% sales tax, other differences are someone's margin.

Certainly the Rocna price, you quote, is pretty keen, you would need to be pretty enthusiastic to buy a Supreme instead.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by colemj

That may work in light wind conditions, but in trade winds, you don't have the luxury of letting it settle in for 30 minutes before setting it - you will be on the reef or land or another boat by then.

I suspect the statement quoted above goes without saying, since on the face it's a statement of the obvious. However, as has been stated many times, even in this thread, the Fortress is often used as a supplemental anchor. My primary anchor is a Rocna, and I carry a Fortress storm anchor as well as a Fortress kedge. There have been any number of times I've anchored the boat on the Rocna and then rowed the Fortress out in the dink for supplemental duty. At such times it's often advisable to let a lightweight anchor sit for a while before setting it.

Even if I were to have to use a Fortress as a primary in tradewind conditions, I could still figure out a way to let it settle before setting it and not "be on the reef or land or another boat" while the anchor settles. All it takes is an engine and a bit of skill at the helm to give a lightweight anchor the time it needs to find the substrate. I realize that not all cruisers have the requisite skill for such an operation, but that's an objection for different conversations.

[Kettlewell]

Those prices I quoted were at retail in US dollars. Most states over here have a sales tax ranging from a low of about 5% up to 8-9%. Varies by state and locality in a lot of states. One thing that also makes a huge difference to the boat manufacturers is availability and I know the folks selling Lewmar stuff in this country have one of the top distribution set ups. I know the boat manufacturers get volume discounts, and they can also purchase a lot of other gear from the same distributor giving them even better deals. Someone ordering stuff for a boat company prefers to get as many things as possible from one source--saves on shipping, gets better discounts, etc.