Mooring Etiquette : Questions

[weavis]

It used to be a joke in FLeetwood/Blackpool launching the 17 footer cuddy outboard boats off the beach for fishing... Everyone had 40hp outboards 'cept for me. I had a 50hp then a 60. I HAD to get out into the water beyond the wave action or could get instantly and deadly sick. Man, the short chop and the climbing of the waves and the dropping off in quick succession would irritate my vomit gland like no other.

Yet once out, no matter what the conditions I was fine.

I also recall that Sunday fishing for me improved when I cut out the Saturday night prawn curry..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

I suppose sometimes its true...

So sorry Sahib.. my Pakistan/India background could not resist it..

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So sorry Sahib.. my Pakistani influences could not resist it..

ٹھیک ہے

[weavis]

I wrote this before somewhere. For the last two years sailing in and around Wales, I dont think I used my anchor more than a few times. Always somewhere to pull up to and tie off.

I took time to read nolex thread on anchors the other week, and realised just how much there is to know about anchor styles, the type of bed to use them on, chain, rodes, snubbers etc etc.

More complicated than us lads just throwing typewriters and RADARS over the side to hold it still...



(yes Im joking)

[thinwater]

Regarding water motion in non-breaking waves (if you've anchor in breaking waves you're toast anyway), particle rotation offers the simplest explanation.

Could it damage a rudder? Not in the context of a crowded harbor (waves are not big enough).

As for east coast US sailor's aversion to crowded harbors...

• Mostly we don't have to.
• Americans like to spread out. Just look at the suburbs and the road system. Not sayin' it's right or wrong, just observing what is.
• People aren't good at what they don't do. In other words, because they don't do it often, there is a higher probability that the guy that comes in next to you will do it wrong and hit someone. Too much scope, all rope, horsing a lot.
• Americans are very litigious. You really don't want to touch someones stuff.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by weavis

Everyone thinks people are out to get them...

Hmmmmmm Do you get that feeling often? Are you also hearing voices?

[barnakiel]

The point is we are living in times when there are just too many cruisers / charters per sq ft of available anchorage area.

Guns, only guns ....... ;-)

b.

[Steven UK]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

This has some good information: SetSail FPB » Free Books

there is a lot of knowledge there some of it i have read already and some is being saved for this winter... many thanks.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Strange comment DH.. that infers no forward impetus.. having been in a boat picked up and thrown by a wave then had it wash over the boat it sure has felt like impetus..
The only 'up and down waves I've experienced were in a 36hr SE'ly gale in the Biscay where the sea's surface current was backed up by the strong wind.

OK, fair enough. But the boat will be pushed forwards and backwards equally, right? Remember you're at anchor, not making way. So would it make any difference to your rudder, whether you're anchored from bow or stern?

As I said, this is pure idle speculation on my part. I have zero experience.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[boatman61]

Way I figure if your anchored bow on the loads on the rudder are where they're designed to be.. up against the post and down to the trailing edge.
Stern to the loads are on the trailing edge which is not designed to take the loads and exerts extra pressure on where the rudder attaches to the post.
But like I say.. my logic does not always equate with the science..
Not saying it'll break it straight off but repetition may just weaken it over time.

[Pelagic]

Dockhead, I think you need to take the design of a rudder with the pivot point near the forward edge before exposing the reversal of those forces in a deteriorating anchorage by anchoring by the stern.

If the wave situation as Boatie describes acts upon the much larger aft area of the pivot point, real damage to the linkage is possible [ATTACH]

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

apologies for hijacking a thread but i am curious about the wave action plus a little constructive conversation never hurt also. i have read the last two pages and not learnt anything but i am curious about waves and the mechanics of them. it was my understanding that they were like sound i.e. one bit of water moved the next bit then went back, this manifests its self on the surface by the up and down bits i.e. the water gets pushed up as it gets a quick shove and is released. this would explain the 'lapping' motion when it hits the beach. yes the compressed part of the water 'bit that goes up and down' will fall over when it hits shallow water. but the top of the water is not moving. if it were it would just continually move up the beach. my son wants to go to school so i have to go....

I assume.

Happy to be corrected.

That the wind moving in relation to the water moves at a lower pressure, the faster the wind moves the lower the pressure. Like the demonstration of someone blowing across the top of paper that lifts the paper - (I'm sure you have seen it but if not, search - "Bernoulli effect")

The low pressure draws the water up, momentum lifts the water beyond the pressure differential potential and the water drops which then drops below the potential.

I'm sure it also includes calculations of durations, currents, water depth, angle of the sea bed, viscosity and a 100 other things that will all work together to control wave height and period.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its down to a combination of force and duration.. (in my dense understanding) if it was merely up and down you would not get annual events in Bangladesh.. the surface is driven forwards by the wind.
However my question was more to do with anchoring stern to or rafting and how one can quickly come unstuck with no warning..
An experience in Mallorca on the 12th Sept 96 anchored in the then popular anchorage of Andratx.. now given over to moorings though one can still anchor further out.. there were around 40 boats on the hook when a tornado/hurricane suddenly sprung up unforecast from the SW straight up the 'fjord'.. within 20 minutes I was the only boat out there as many of the others dragged and then ran for the inner harbour.. moored boats were being sunk or washed onto the road.. in an anchorage round the corner a yacht ended up 20ft up a semi cliff and in Palma there was chaos on a large scale in the marina's.. palms blown down and a couple of deaths.
I used to take anchoring seriously before that.. but since that experience its been reinforced.. the only reason I did not drag is because I knew the bottom.. its a hard bottom and difficult to set a hook in but most often its a placid anchorage so sufficient chain will keep you held.. however there are small crevasses running across and I always made a point of setting my hook in a certain one after experiencing some dragging my first night there..
I dived the next day and saw what the problem was.. and the solution.
Some of the boats that ran into the inner harbour ended up aground at the NE end due to silt/mushy holding inside.
Anchorage was to the right side of the fjord outside the harbour.
Something else I do is drop my boom to the port side and secure it under the lower guardrail and tie the rudder offset.. I find this helps with the hunting back and forth.. but remember.. I sail small or low windage boats.. my current 39ftr I can lean over and rinse my hand in the water while sitting on the deck..
This is good for a luddite like me.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_wave

Another for the skipper being able to dive and check anchor in a non familiar anchorage.

[Don C L]

I have anchored off the stern when I was lazy, had sailed in and just wanted to drop the stern hook and the weather was calm. But with surge or a strong breeze, and often one puts the helm over (in the case of a tiller) to get it out of the way, the rudder is more exposed, as Boatman says, to forces it was intended to handle. Many do, but just something to take into account. One minor thing about this all that hasn't been mentioned is that some of us put out rocker-stoppers on the boom or a pole. In my case I have it lashed bow and stern so it helps not only with roll, but in dampening yaw and desire to sail. Makes it hard to raft up though. That's ok, most rafts I've seen are drunken fiberglass masses dragging through like bowling balls through pins.

[kmacdonald]

Never had a problem with the rudder on my Catalina Capri 22 when anchored from the stern. Must be Catalinas superior quality.