Mooring Etiquette : Questions

[CarinaPDX]

I had a boat come into a crowded anchorage and drop his hook near mine, then back down to rest just a boat length in front of Carina. I didn't hear them until they started to party, and I made the mistake of not saying anything about the fait accompli. In the morning, immediately after the early weather report, I came on deck ready to hail them only to find they had all left for a day ashore. My mistake. With a strong trade wind blowing through it got messy finally getting free. Lesson learned: I should have talked with them when I first noticed. Of course they shouldn't have anchored that way but it seems pointless to try and educate every thoughtless sailor, and in this case from another country with a different language. Life goes on...

Greg

[TheThunderbird]

A mild word is always worth a million.

I opened a thread which proved being overly rich of comments.
It means that we all feel sensitive about the matter. Any sailors just try to improve his/her seafaring.

And we must remain aware, without patronizing, that many obvious things/solutions are not available to all at once.

What i have learned is that whoever anchored first has a right/duty to behave actively and voice any reasonable concern. Silence becomes a (shared) guilt whatever happens afterward.
Using zn anchor buoy is the best way to say "please consider where my hook is.. "
:-)
Thanks to all

[Pelagic]

Whenever I get irritated by a neighbouring boat, be it because of their unnecessary closeness or the accompanying smells and loud noises, I just remind myself that I have the option to move, which is far easier than from a house.

[Jim Cate]

Re the dread "lying over my anchor and I wanna leave" situation:

I've worried a bit about this developing at times in crowded anchorages, but in fact, it has never been an issue. As we have all noted, boats tend to move about while resting at anchor, and in the few times where I thought it would be an issue, simply waiting and watching for an opportune moment has solved the problem. You heave up just short of the stern of the interloper and then when he swings a bit, you drive over your anchor, jerk it out and away you go. Its a good idea to immediately swing away from his rode so as to not hook it up as you finish raising your anchor.

If he is directly over your hook, another ploy is to come up as close as possible to his stern, make fast the snubber or chain stopper and power hard in reverse. You will be at very short scope, near to 1:1, and that will usually pop the anchor out.

So, it may be an inconvenience, but hardly the end of the world. And do remember, in crowded anchorages, even when you anchor safely in terms of collision, a wind shift can swing YOU over someone else's hook, making you the bad guy!

The cruising life is somewhat unpredictable, and offers occasional stresses... better learn to cope with them, or you will be forever unhappy.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Scout30,

The further afield you go, you will begin to notice that usually, the smaller, more shallow draft vessels anchor closer to shore, and to some extent, the cats with one another and also, the monos (because they swing similarly to each other.) If your boat and Dockhead's found themselves sharing an anchorage, I bet Dockhead would be anchored further out than you. And, even if it's bouncy, his boat would probably still be comfortable, so it's not like it's a burden on the larger boats to anchor out.


One of the most annoying anchoring incidents happened to us in Papeete. It is a place where one anchors in the bay, and brings stern lines ashore to the quai. And a Frenchman dropped his hook over ours a few days later. When we went to get the hook up, he was unwilling to move to help us, saying words that will ring in my ears forever, "They put their anchor under mine, they can get it out!" Just how he thought we'd actually been able to accomplish that fantasy of his, I'll never know! Anyhow, we stripped our windlass in the process, not the most fun deal in the world. But sometimes, stuff happens.


Imho, you are far more likely to have a contretemps with a boat closer to the size of yours than with a significantly larger one, assuming no wind and current changes for the evening in question.

Ann

[Wanderlust]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

What i have learned is that whoever anchored first has a right/duty to behave actively and voice any reasonable concern. Silence becomes a (shared) guilt whatever happens afterward.
Using zn anchor buoy is the best way to say "please consider where my hook is.. "
:-)
Thanks to all

That wasn't what I got out of this thread.

So you are saying "If I anchor too close and they don't complain, it's their fault as much as mine". You asked about etiquette, not legalities.

Back in your original post, you referred to putting out fenders and staying on anchor watch. Do you really expect your neighbour to do the same due to your presence, when you could have just moved (as they eventually did to feel safer)? To me, good etiquette is being far enough away that you do not impact your neighbour's enjoyment.

Also, I must have missed the comments in this thread about an anchor buoy, but I thought the general consensus is they are not a good idea and cause more problems than they solve.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Scout30,

The further afield you go, you will begin to notice that usually, the smaller, more shallow draft vessels anchor closer to shore, and to some extent, the cats with one another and also, the monos (because they swing similarly to each other.) If your boat and Dockhead's found themselves sharing an anchorage, I bet Dockhead would be anchored further out than you. And, even if it's bouncy, his boat would probably still be comfortable, so it's not like it's a burden on the larger boats to anchor out.


One of the most annoying anchoring incidents happened to us in Papeete. It is a place where one anchors in the bay, and brings stern lines ashore to the quai. And a Frenchman dropped his hook over ours a few days later. When we went to get the hook up, he was unwilling to move to help us, saying words that will ring in my ears forever, "They put their anchor under mine, they can get it out!" Just how he thought we'd actually been able to accomplish that fantasy of his, I'll never know! Anyhow, we stripped our windlass in the process, not the most fun deal in the world. But sometimes, stuff happens.


Imho, you are far more likely to have a contretemps with a boat closer to the size of yours than with a significantly larger one, assuming no wind and current changes for the evening in question.

Ann

Got a chuckle out of your frenchman. Having med moored plenty presumably he should have known better. He didnt even need to re anchor if he didnt want (though that would be the etiquette) just let out his chain and if necessary idle forward against stern lines to allow you to retrieve.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust

That wasn't what I got out of this thread.

So you are saying "If I anchor too close and they don't complain, it's their fault as much as mine". You asked about etiquette, not legalities.

Back in your original post, you referred to putting out fenders and staying on anchor watch. Do you really expect your neighbour to do the same due to your presence, when you could have just moved (as they eventually did to feel safer)? To me, good etiquette is being far enough away that you do not impact your neighbour's enjoyment.

Also, I must have missed the comments in this thread about an anchor buoy, but I thought the general consensus is they are not a good idea and cause more problems than they solve.

Yes.

A few anchorage etiquette guidelines I could propose:

1. Don't anchor closer to other boats than you need to.

2. Don't anchor dead upwind of the next boat, either. If you're in a crowded anchorage which requires tight distances between boats, lay your anchor somewhere in line with his stern and offset to the side, so that your boat will lie downwind.

3. Don't use more or less scope than other boats are using, if you're in a very crowded anchorage, and don't anchor close to a boat of a different type from yours.

4. Don't cause unnecessary distress and tension -- if someone on a boat which came earlier is not comfortable with your nearness, even if he's an idiot who doesn't understand how boats swing together, move.

5. If YOU are the boat which came earlier, and you don't like the way a later boat anchored, and the later boat isn't persuaded by your polite request, then cheerfully move yourself. If you allow yourself to get upset, or attempt to "stand on your rights", then you just invalidated the whole day of enjoyment you've just had and spoiled the mood. All for the sake of avoiding a few minutes of boat-handling -- something we do for fun, remind yourself! How stupid would that be?

6. Try not to lay your chain over someone else's. If you do, be sure you're around to lift it if necessary to let him out.

7. Be polite and helpful at all times to other cruisers.

8. NEVER use an anchor buoy in a crowded anchorage.


Follow these rules, and you will avoid friction in anchorages and resulting spoiled evenings at anchor.


Thunderbird, it sounds like your guy was following Rule 5. Good on him. I'd have sent him over a bottle of wine.

[Scottuk]

I have enjoyed reading through this thread due to the memories brought back having visited nearly all the named anchorages that have been described. The Isle de Vulcano is one of my favourites.

Yes it is typical for all vessels to lay in the same direction in an anchorage. However, one night I woke up and quickly realised something was not quite right and sure enough when I got topside I found we were lying hull to hull with another boat that had anchored nearby. I was not fussed when they had anchored as it was not all that closed but he was on all chain while I was on 10m of chain and nylon rode. During the night there was little wind but since our tackle was different we reacted differently to the small puffs that had occurred. I had 3:1 scope out and reduced to 2:1 for the rest of the night. I didn't worry about the scope because of the light winds. Besides this was the Hauraki Gulf in NZ and you have to consider yourself lucky whenever you achieve 3:1 scope. The next morning I rowed over to the other boat and told him that our boats had touched during the night. He wasn't bothered though I would have thought he would have shown a bit of concern for my boat since I was there first.

I figure when I anchor out with somebody else's swing radius that I own the water within my swing radius during my visit. It is incumbent on the other boat(s) that then anchor within my radius to ensure their boats do not affect mine just as I defer to other boats when I anchor within their radius. I am always happy to discuss potential problems with any of my neighbours and will move if there is any reasonable problem though I have never had any major issues.

As far as rafting I Have only done it where two boats come together. We would anchor like any other buddy boats and then cast a line to the other boat to pull them together. After we had our time together we untie the lines but we would never raft overnight. I have also rafted many times to other boats on public piers though from what I understand this might not be a viable option with many US flagged boats. My experience rafting when going through locks has taught me that the practice is untenable in anything but calm waters.

Since this is a thread on mooring (anchoring) etiquette I was wondering what other people thought about when another boat comes in and anchors in a spot that you have just unsuccessfully dropped the hook and were in the process of attempting it again. I have had this happen a number of times and in each case the other boat had to know what I was trying to do. I think it is rather rude but was wondering what others might think.

[kmacdonald]

Scope is determined by expected wind, current, sea state, etc and not by what the Jones's scope is. Adjust to your own comfort level.

[Scottuk]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Scope is determined by expected wind, current, sea state, etc and not by what the Jones's scope is.

Scope is likely determined by the other boats already in the anchorage. It is your choice if it is enough. If not leave.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Scottuk

Scope is likely determined by the other boats already in the anchorage. It is your choice if it is enough. If not leave.

Its one of the reasons I take a couple of runs through/around the anchorage before deciding where to set my hook.. whose on chain.. rope.. nearness to each other dictates rode's.. find those spots suited to my needs.. further out if needed.
I like to sleep on depth + 3 x boat length when possible.

[Scottuk]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its one of the reasons I take a couple of runs through/around the anchorage before deciding where to set my hook.. whose on chain.. rope.. nearness to each other dictates rode's.. find those spots suited to my needs.. further out if needed.
I like to sleep on depth + 3 x boat length when possible.

It's also good to take a lap to see if you can ascertain what your neighbours will be like. I tend to look for older folks as they are likely to be better behaved.

That said I once was camping in the south of France and we set up our tent on one of the divided plots. There was a tent on the next plot over but the inhabitants were away. After we had turned in for the evening they came back the started to sing and whoop it up intil very late. The next day I woke up a bit irratated from all the noise. When I looked over to the next plot all four of the culprits were over the age 70. I was then very impressed.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its one of the reasons I take a couple of runs through/around the anchorage before deciding where to set my hook.. .

Lightly clad females usually indicate a great spot to drop the hook.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Scope is determined by expected wind, current, sea state, etc and not by what the Jones's scope is. Adjust to your own comfort level.

Once again, that is not the way we do it. If you anchor up close to other boats, because the anchorage is crowded, you must adjust your scope in harmony with that of other boats, or leave if you're not comfortable with that scope. Also if you're on a different type of rode, or you're much bigger or smaller than the other boats, stay further away.

Those guys who put out 10:1 when others are on 5:1 are a menace. Don't be one.

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