Mooring Etiquette : Questions

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Scottuk

I have enjoyed reading through this thread due to the memories brought back having visited nearly all the named anchorages that have been described. The Isle de Vulcano is one of my favourites.

Yes it is typical for all vessels to lay in the same direction in an anchorage. However, one night I woke up and quickly realised something was not quite right and sure enough when I got topside I found we were lying hull to hull with another boat that had anchored nearby. I was not fussed when they had anchored as it was not all that closed but he was on all chain while I was on 10m of chain and nylon rode. During the night there was little wind but since our tackle was different we reacted differently to the small puffs that had occurred. I had 3:1 scope out and reduced to 2:1 for the rest of the night. I didn't worry about the scope because of the light winds. Besides this was the Hauraki Gulf in NZ and you have to consider yourself lucky whenever you achieve 3:1 scope. The next morning I rowed over to the other boat and told him that our boats had touched during the night. He wasn't bothered though I would have thought he would have shown a bit of concern for my boat since I was there first.

I figure when I anchor out with somebody else's swing radius that I own the water within my swing radius during my visit. It is incumbent on the other boat(s) that then anchor within my radius to ensure their boats do not affect mine just as I defer to other boats when I anchor within their radius. I am always happy to discuss potential problems with any of my neighbours and will move if there is any reasonable problem though I have never had any major issues.

As far as rafting I Have only done it where two boats come together. We would anchor like any other buddy boats and then cast a line to the other boat to pull them together. After we had our time together we untie the lines but we would never raft overnight. I have also rafted many times to other boats on public piers though from what I understand this might not be a viable option with many US flagged boats. My experience rafting when going through locks has taught me that the practice is untenable in anything but calm waters.

Since this is a thread on mooring (anchoring) etiquette I was wondering what other people thought about when another boat comes in and anchors in a spot that you have just unsuccessfully dropped the hook and were in the process of attempting it again. I have had this happen a number of times and in each case the other boat had to know what I was trying to do. I think it is rather rude but was wondering what others might think.

On your last point of another boat grabbing a spot you were trying to anchor in again. Yes it happens and usually they are just inexperienced ie charterers so a conversation I have found doesn't actually help much. Ie they are stressing and get defensive at the drop of a hat. Experienced skippers can usually see clearly what you are up to.

Definitely in the bad etiquette department if they go ahead after you have made your intentions clear.

Mind you I reckon the skipper that puts the throttle down to try and overtake you when he realises you are both going for the same spot is an ass clown too. IMHO if you are a boat length or more in front you get to drop first and that shouldn't be changed if the second boat flies into the anchorage at 7 knots in the last 100 odd meters to overtake. There are some jerks out there that's for sure.

[Scottuk]

Originally Posted by Barra

On your last point of another boat grabbing a spot you were trying to anchor in again. Yes it happens and usually they are just inexperienced ie charterers so a conversation I have found doesn't actually help much. Ie they are stressing and get defensive at the drop of a hat. Experienced skippers can usually see clearly what you are up to.

That has not been my experience. Two instances stand out, the first was a German flagged boat at Great Barrier Island in NZ. There I was trying to get the hook to grab at a spot I had anchored a few times previously. The spot does have a reputation of difficulty but once you get the hook to grab it is all good but this time I couldn't get it to set despite several attempts. The boat swooped in to the exact spot I had dropped anchor after watching my last two attempts. Being a bit frustrated not being able to get a set and having another boat swoop in I demonstrated my irratation with a hand gesture. We then dropped back about 150m and dropped and got a set. After about 20 minutes the German boat picked up anchor and moved further back into the bay as they too were unable to get a set.

The second instance was at the Isle of Canna in Scotland. The bay is known for it's grassy bottom. We arrived about 300m ahead of a boat flagged with a St George's Cross. The bay was already crowded and when we dropped our hook we did not get a set due to the grass. While cleaning the grass off the hook the other boat came in and dropped right in the exact spot. Since it was crowded we next dropped to where we were off their beam and got a set. About 10 minutes later the guy in the other boat said he thought we were to close. I just stared at him and shook my head. We were no closer to them as were other boats in the bay to each other.

[Sandero]

I have not had much in the way of problems anchoring, fortunately. In try to anchor behind all boats (down wind). Before anchoring I study the anchorage on the charts, and the weather report. If the wind is more than 15k I set up a riding sail to keep the boat as steady as possible because she is a fractional rig, with high freeboard and a fin keel.

I learn a bit about the anchorage by studying the boats anchored there. If a see a salty world cruiser type I assume the boats properly anchored with the correct scope. In NE I try to avoid dropping the hook near small power boats and what look to me like boats with skippers who have little anchoring experience and show no chain or use a snubber.

I will often ask a skipper how much chain he has down to assess the scope. I will move and re anchor if: the admiral feels uncomfortable for any reason... another boat comes and anchors too close... conditions change enough that I need more room and I don't have it. I never raft up and never would and stay clear of rafted boats. I've had a bunch of rafted small power boats drag and snag my chain and I was holding the whole lot as the wind picked up. Newport harbor master was summoned and he pulled the jerks off. Of course they were in town drinking.

Don't anchor near moored boats. Have a good dink with a strong motor so your choices for location are not as restricted.

[Saleen411]

Mind you I reckon the skipper that puts the throttle down to try and overtake you when he realises you are both going for the same spot is an ass clown too. IMHO if you are a boat length or more in front you get to drop first and that shouldn't be changed if the second boat flies into the anchorage at 7 knots in the last 100 odd meters to overtake. There are some jerks out there that's for sure.

Yes there are. One thing I haven't seen mentioned are the douche pumps that try to pass/race you to steal a mooring ball....seen this too, esp if its the last one in the mooring field. God forbid if a person has to actually DROP an anchor.

I mean really......Recently, Im 50 meters away doing 2 knots pointed at a mooring ball at the Indians and i see another cat behind me to the right doing 7 knots aimed at the same ball. Seriously? So of course i speed up and he slams on the brakes and turns away. He CLEARLY saw we were approaching the mooring ball and CLEARLY was going to cut us off to get it.

I've noticed that the more people that are on a boat at times, the ruder the behavior....safety in numbers I guess.

Don't get me started on the idiots that cut you off at the fuel dock.

[a64pilot]

Several time I have seen don't use more or less scope than the others in the anchorage.
How do you tell? Unless the wind is up the angle of the chain from my bow is the same if I'm 3 or 7 to 1.
I will lay out more scope if the forecast is for high winds, figured someone would ask why I have 7 to 1 out on light winds.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Several time I have seen don't use more or less scope than the others in the anchorage.
How do you tell? Unless the wind is up the angle of the chain from my bow is the same if I'm 3 or 7 to 1.
I will lay out more scope if the forecast is for high winds, figured someone would ask why I have 7 to 1 out on light winds.

I was wondering the same thing. How would you just know how much rode someone's got out & does everyone in an anchorage magically lay to the same scope? We still use the vilified CQR & a 3 to 1 scope is not a great idea for that anchor. Personally I just put out a 7 to 1 scope & when it kicks up in the middle of the night, as it always seems to do, I don't have to worry about it. However, this is coming from someone who avoids a crowd.

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Several time I have seen don't use more or less scope than the others in the anchorage.
How do you tell? Unless the wind is up the angle of the chain from my bow is the same if I'm 3 or 7 to 1...

a64pilot, I usually cruise by and if anyone is on deck I ask them what scope they have out. I've been surprised be the number of boats that simply don't know how much rode they have out. That's usually a good reason not to anchor near to them.

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Or was it just another random insult like the others with which you pepper your posts?

Jim

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Would you like a little salt to go with it?

I love it.. An old salt who peppers his posts... You have to love the pun.. It did not go un-noticed.. flk k

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Several time I have seen don't use more or less scope than the others in the anchorage.
How do you tell? Unless the wind is up the angle of the chain from my bow is the same if I'm 3 or 7 to 1.
I will lay out more scope if the forecast is for high winds, figured someone would ask why I have 7 to 1 out on light winds.

See Sanderos excellent post above. ASK. It's always a good approach to putter around the anchorage, scope it out, talk to people, before choosing a spot.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sandero]

So much about sailing is READING and processing what you read. And by READING I don't mean ONLY charts and cruising guides. Read what other boats are doing. Learn to Read what the sea is doing, waves as current. Read what the wind is doing. Learn about local weather patterns. If you read and in some cases ask other sailors your decisions will be informed. DON'T make assumptions if you can work with facts.

LEARN how your boat anchors, how it behaves on anchor, in current and so forth. Be familiar and comfortable with anchoring. I find chain a huge improvement over rope... and with it a windlass... a tireless energetic "crew" who makes anchoring not a struggle but more a matter of intelligent choices. Setting the anchor properly only takes a few minutes. Learn to know if your anchor is properly set... especially true when anchoring in light conditions which degrade. Mark your chain or rode and use the proper scope... computed from the waterline not the deck. Take some visual bearings when the anchor set and check them periodically. Note if boats around you are "moving" or changing relative position... They may be dragging or changing their scope. Consider the high tide when computing scope. Anchoring is a HUGE part of cruising. It's mission critical!

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by weavis

[snip]

More complicated than us lads just throwing typewriters and RADARS over the side to hold it still...

(yes Im joking)

Funny how so many things in life are reported to be only useful as an anchor.. I think the next time someone tells me "it's just good for an anchor", I think I will respond with "with how much rode", or "for a stern anchor"..

And while there has been way too much "ego" expressed in this thread, it does contain very useful links and even a "salting" of good info (sorry the devil made me say that)..

flk k

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah! Let's all raft up!

Interesting, one of the largest "raft ups" was across the Hellespont back in 480BC.. Some 65 Km in length, the Hellespont was bridged by tying a number of ships side by side using a very long lengths of papyrus rope..

An interesting side note, once Xerxes was defeated and the raft bridge was destroyed, those long Papyrus ropes were kept by the Greeks.. Evidently the rope was some fairly high tech stuff, and the spoils of the war..

flk k

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Don't forget the radar!!!!!!!!!!!! It's the radar that makes it safe. Everyone knows that.

LOL.. I recently read the disclaimer in a Raytheon RADAR set User's Guide, and it clearly stated:

"This radar unit is only an aid to navigation... This radar unit should not
be relied upon as a substitute for such prudence and judgement."

So I guess, Radar does not make it safe <grin>.. flk k

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by Sandero

So much about sailing is READING and processing what you read. And by READING I don't mean ONLY charts and cruising guides. Read what other boats are doing. Learn to Read what the sea is doing, waves as current. Read what the wind is doing. Learn about local weather patterns. If you read and in some cases ask other sailors your decisions will be informed. DON'T make assumptions if you can work with facts.

LEARN how your boat anchors, how it behaves on anchor, in current and so forth. Be familiar and comfortable with anchoring. I find chain a huge improvement over rope... and with it a windlass... a tireless energetic "crew" who makes anchoring not a struggle but more a matter of intelligent choices. Setting the anchor properly only takes a few minutes. Learn to know if your anchor is properly set... especially true when anchoring in light conditions which degrade. Mark your chain or rode and use the proper scope... computed from the waterline not the deck. Take some visual bearings when the anchor set and check them periodically. Note if boats around you are "moving" or changing relative position... They may be dragging or changing their scope. Consider the high tide when computing scope. Anchoring is a HUGE part of cruising. It's mission critical!

Great points. Not only do most not base their scope on high tide but many do not add their freeboard but just go by what their depthfinder says which often does not account for the depth of the transducer.

[liveaboard60]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Lightly clad females usually indicate a great spot to drop the hook.

Clearly you do not travel with your significant other <LOL>.. flk k