Mooring pendant chafe guard

[Manateeman]

Hi. Dyneema is stronger than steel. I’ve never seen dyneema combined with nylon in a commercial setting. I worked for a Norwegian company with salmon farms in Norway, Scotland and west Canada. Miles of dyneema. A lot of the mooring technology came from oceanography where they are anchoring very expensive gear in very deep waters. Please take a look at Hazelett systems.
Snubbers are for absorbing shock. Dyneema pendants are like heavy wire. No shock absorption. Never seen them mixed in one line before. The nylon will fail first not because the dyneema “saws” through the nylon, the nylon will just elongate till failure. Dyneema is not a magic solution to all the issues of mooring.
First, look at where you are loading the vessel. Can you improve the strength .
Stronger cleats. Transferring the load better. Rollers. Lower the angle with a bow eye. Snubbers attached to the vessel seperate from the pendant.
More details or plans or photos of the attachment points on your vessel are required to properly give you options. It’s foolish to continue without that information as often the line is far stronger than the attachment point.
Nothing wrong with heavy braid on braid nylon line correctly spliced with slipped over chafe protection, nice elk skin, roller chocks and a solid bollard. If all you gear can take the weight of you vessel, you will be fine. So...
Happy trails to you.
Mark the manatee.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Hi. Dyneema is stronger than steel. I’ve never seen dyneema combined with nylon in a commercial setting. I worked for a Norwegian company with salmon farms in Norway, Scotland and west Canada. Miles of dyneema. A lot of the mooring technology came from oceanography where they are anchoring very expensive gear in very deep waters. Please take a look at Hazelett systems.
Snubbers are for absorbing shock. Dyneema pendants are like heavy wire. No shock absorption. Never seen them mixed in one line before. The nylon will fail first not because the dyneema “saws” through the nylon, the nylon will just elongate till failure. Dyneema is not a magic solution to all the issues of mooring.
First, look at where you are loading the vessel. Can you improve the strength .
Stronger cleats. Transferring the load better. Rollers. Lower the angle with a bow eye. Snubbers attached to the vessel seperate from the pendant.
More details or plans or photos of the attachment points on your vessel are required to properly give you options. It’s foolish to continue without that information as often the line is far stronger than the attachment point.
Nothing wrong with heavy braid on braid nylon line correctly spliced with slipped over chafe protection, nice elk skin, roller chocks and a solid bollard. If all you gear can take the weight of you vessel, you will be fine. So...
Happy trails to you.
Mark the manatee.

Happy trails to you. Telling your age. I don't see how he could install a bollar/ Sampson post. I would be concerned that dropping eye, as shown, over the cleats would have the potential of coming free?
I still like the cat boat suggestion to the other post.

[Manateeman]

Well thank you for bringing attention to the fact old boatbuilders sometimes have gained from the depth and breath of their experience building...wait I second...short time brain freeze...oh yes...what was I saying again.
Oh cleats. Well there were some nifty chocks by Spartan marine which had a little 1/4” bar that slid across so any line could not jump out of the chock.
I’ve tied a lighter line cross the throat of the eye. My beloved practices on my throat when she find yet another packing slip for the boat.
Anyway the other poster is sailing out of a harbor that you can wade across on moon low but is strikingly beautiful. I shall continue on his post.
What was it you wish to know about chafe gear again.
Mark , a memorex manatee

[ShadyLady]

I would consider the option of crossing the bow lines if the problem of possible chafe against the anchor chain can be addressed. This ought to give a cleaner lead and hence less chafe at the chock. I have used braided sleeve anti-chafe gear and fire hose quite successfully as anti-chafe, taped and/or tied in place over the mooring line. The ideal solution is to eliminate the possibility of chafe altogether by having a 'clean' connection to the mooring from a cleat on the rail or an eye on the stem, although I acknowledge this is seldom a practical option.
Reducing the possibility of chafe against the anchor also sounds like a high priority. Anti-chafe gear as well as allowing the anchor to move a bit may help with this, although if a large storm is forecast moving the anchor up onto the deck may be worth the effort.
The other concern with the five mile fetch that you mentioned is to eliminate the possibility of hooking up the bow anchor with the mooring line if the sea conditions cause the bow to plunge downwards. If the mooring line wraps
a sharp anchor this could quickly cut through the line and chafe gear in a storm. A back-up attachment to an eye near the water line could help reduce this risk as well as offering some insurance against rope or deck hardware failure.
Good luck and given your attention to this critical issue, I am confident that you will find a solution that works well for your boat.

[Draughty]

Hi all,
PENNANT please!

Rgds

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Hi. Dyneema is stronger than steel. I’ve never seen dyneema combined with nylon in a commercial setting. I worked for a Norwegian company with salmon farms in Norway, Scotland and west Canada. Miles of dyneema. A lot of the mooring technology came from oceanography where they are anchoring very expensive gear in very deep waters. Please take a look at Hazelett systems.
Snubbers are for absorbing shock. Dyneema pendants are like heavy wire. No shock absorption. Never seen them mixed in one line before. The nylon will fail first not because the dyneema “saws” through the nylon, the nylon will just elongate till failure. Dyneema is not a magic solution to all the issues of mooring.
First, look at where you are loading the vessel. Can you improve the strength .
Stronger cleats. Transferring the load better. Rollers. Lower the angle with a bow eye. Snubbers attached to the vessel seperate from the pendant.
More details or plans or photos of the attachment points on your vessel are required to properly give you options. It’s foolish to continue without that information as often the line is far stronger than the attachment point.
Nothing wrong with heavy braid on braid nylon line correctly spliced with slipped over chafe protection, nice elk skin, roller chocks and a solid bollard. If all you gear can take the weight of you vessel, you will be fine. So...
Happy trails to you.
Mark the manatee.

Stronger cleats are going to solve my chafe problem? Lol, Internet.

The 1” nylon/poly double braid is plenty ’strong’ enough for the boat, and it’s shock absorbing stretch is a blessing. Where the line encounters hard things like chocks, however, that shock absorbing is a curse, contributing to chafe. A short length of dyneema (a material that does NOT appreciably stretch/relax so much as the load comes and goes) for where the gear passes through chocks can prevent stretch/relax induced chafing. The dyneema isn’t being used for its strength in this application, it’s being used for its low stretch.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Hi all,
PENNANT please!

Rgds

pen·nant
/ˈpenənt/
noun
noun: pennant; plural noun: pennants
1.
a tapering flag on a ship, especially one flown at the masthead of a vessel in commission.
a long triangular or swallow-tailed flag, especially as a military ensign.
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
a flag denoting a sports championship or other achievement.
"the Dodgers won six pennants during his career"
3.
NAUTICAL
a short rope hanging from the head of a ship's mast; a pendant.



Think you gotta find a different axe to grind bud

[chris95040]

So let’s say I’ve got a 1” diameter nylon/poly double braid pendant with an eye, and one of these 3/4” diameter dyneema straps with eyes on each end.

I can see from the pics how that dyneema cyclone is attached to the main pendant (just stuffed through its own loop I guess) but that sure looks like just a new chafe point to me, with the double braid getting choked by the dyneema.

Anyone know a better way to attach the length of dyneema to the length of nylon/poly double braid?

[dfelsent]

Oooh. I recall there was a massively long thread re Jordan series drogues and this whole issue.
The issue with chafe is motion. The small length of nylon with the interlocking loops is not much compared to the feet of distance from cleat to chock.
Having had pennants/pendants fail I’d go for the loop.
Unless I had properly sized nylon braid.
But I see lots of both.
And i carry dyneema strops for low stretch heavy weather chafe reduction

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by chris95040

pen·nant
/ˈpenənt/
noun
noun: pennant; plural noun: pennants
1.
a tapering flag on a ship, especially one flown at the masthead of a vessel in commission.
a long triangular or swallow-tailed flag, especially as a military ensign.
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
a flag denoting a sports championship or other achievement.
"the Dodgers won six pennants during his career"
3.
NAUTICAL
a short rope hanging from the head of a ship's mast; a pendant.



Think you gotta find a different axe to grind bud

I note Willard & Sons linked to in post#2 call it a PENNANT mate.

[Jetx]

Originally Posted by chris95040

I can see from the pics how that dyneema cyclone is attached to the main pendant (just stuffed through its own loop I guess) but that sure looks like just a new chafe point to me, with the double braid getting choked by the dyneema.

The connection is simply a cow hitch / luggage tag / lark’s head... but dressed differently. It won’t chafe, because the loops lock together quite tightly, and there is no movement between them (I’ve done a “Y” snubber this this way, and it takes some work to separate the loops after they’ve been loaded.). It’s the connection method specifically recommended by New England Ropes, so I’d trust it.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Draughty

I note Willard & Sons linked to in post#2 call it a PENNANT mate.

Matey,

Both spellings are everywhere, including dictionaries. You’ve gotta get a new hobby.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Jetx

The connection is simply a cow hitch / luggage tag / lark’s head... but dressed differently. It won’t chafe, because the loops lock together quite tightly, and there is no movement between them (I’ve done a “Y” snubber this this way, and it takes some work to separate the loops after they’ve been loaded.). It’s the connection method specifically recommended by New England Ropes, so I’d trust it.

This is what I was hoping to hear, hoping some of our resident knot-nerds will +1 this.

Some updates- after 3 days of crazy wind and waves my (7/8”, I realized) double braid is clearly chafing under the chafe guard, no visible damage to the chafe guard itself.

I’m replacing with Yale maxi-moor poly/nylon pendant, 1” diameter, 50% longer than the last set to reduce the down angle exiting the chocks. I’ll attach dyneema extensions with a cows hitch when big weather is expected...

[Breaking Waves]

There is actually some 'expert' debate/difference of practice on how best to make this sort of connection . . . see this Samson tech document for a perspective (it's for a slightly different application with slightly different pitfalls, and the pics show a somewhat different dressing but I ask and their comments/recommendations also apply to the more 'open' dressing):

https://samsonrope.com/docs/default-...rsn=f0eceef6_2

You could easily use their prefered solution(s) for the bridle connection if you wanted to.

In actual practice, for yachting usage, with reasonable inspection frequency, the girth hitch connection is perfectly acceptable. A simple small improvement would be to add a cover to the dyneema spliced loop to bulk it up a bit to be roughly the same diameter as the nylon - this improves D/d and provides some extra cushion against the 'crushing' mentionned in the above document.

The NER product (which is easily DIY replicated) had (when the concept was a couple years old and the installed systems reasonably young) quite impressive actual real world experience, used in various mooring fields in the NE USA with a significantly higher success rate in big storms than the common alternatives. But I have not seen any data on how it has faired with greater aging and wear and environemental degredation.

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Matey,

Both spellings are everywhere, including dictionaries. You’ve gotta get a new hobby.

It's not a question of spellings; they are two completely different words so of course both spellings are in dictionaries.
It's disappointing you need to be so antagonistic.
While I find a new hobby why don't you find a more suitable place for your mooring and stop helping to drive up our insurance premiums.

Rgds