My ground tackle refit

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wholybee

For sure, boats are different. I don't doubt that for many boats having weight on the bow makes little difference. For others, it does matter.

Agreed.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's the Charlie Morgan design 382, right? My father had a boat like that (and loved it).


And our previous one was a Pearson 365, similar in waterline and displacement -- very heavy D/L compared to my present boat, which is only 20 metric tonnes on a 47' waterline.


I would not think your boat would care much about 100 pounds plus or minus on the bow, but you would know better. We carried 300' of I think it was 3/8" chain on the Pearson, and were glad of it.



Our racing is long distance ocean racing, not around the cans. Upwind against a head sea is where we make miles against smaller pure racing boats.


Adding rope rode will give you scope when you need it, but a lot of chain hanging down in deep water is a different effect. I recommend it if you can carry it.


I often anchor with all my chain out, and there have been a few cases where I wish I had had more.

It's the Ted Brewer design from after Charlie sold the company. It's a very good boat overall, but a few oddities, one of which is 300lbs of ballast in the bow, to offset an engine heavier than the hull was designed for. I'll be removing that as other owners have, when I have the energy to spend a couple weekends with a chisel to cut through the epoxy it is encased it. Maybe then I will consider more chain.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by wholybee

It's the Ted Brewer design from after Charlie sold the company. It's a very good boat overall, but a few oddities, one of which is 300lbs of ballast in the bow, to offset an engine heavier than the hull was designed for. I'll be removing that as other owners have, when I have the energy to spend a couple weekends with a chisel to cut through the epoxy it is encased it. Maybe then I will consider more chain.

That's always a good thought process to follow. What other weight can be moved or removed to make room for something more useful?

Length of bow overhang (and therefore how far beyond the waterline the chain is carried) as well as the hull shape will all affect how much a given boat suffers from carrying extra weight forward.

[scherzoja]

Jammer,

Check with 1st-chainsupply.com, a few years ago they had the best price, when delivery was factored. For full and half barrels, you need to ship to place with forklift.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wholybee

. . . one of which is 300lbs of ballast in the bow, to offset an engine heavier than the hull was designed for. I'll be removing that as other owners have, when I have the energy to spend a couple weekends with a chisel to cut through the epoxy it is encased it. Maybe then I will consider more chain.

Well, there you go. Pull that out, and then carry all the chain you want.

[rgleason]

Opinion: We cruisers carry around far too much weight, like a turtle, thinking it makes no difference. Compromize is always necessary based on experience and values. Everyone is different.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

I'd guess so, but don't know for sure.

It's Fawcett's in Annapolis. https://www.fawcettboat.com/

FWIW, the price I've been quoted for chain -- by phone, with email follow-up -- is better than what they show "per foot" on their website.

-Chris

Thanks a lot, Chris

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Opinion: We cruisers carry around far too much weight, like a turtle, thinking it makes no difference. Compromize is always necessary based on experience and values. Everyone is different.

I agree. I try to assess everything as either "necessary weight" or something that's nice to have on board. If I have to add necessary weight (things like ground tackle, batteries, etc.) I try to see if there's anything else that can be moved or removed to avoid just piling weight on blindly.

[SV__Grace]

Tried marking my anchor chain with paint but doesn't last very long and is a PIA to renew.
Tried the plastic inserts which are insanely expensive and tend to pop out.

The solution that has worked best for me is to use the vinyl markers used for rope rode by sewing them on with a stitch or two of whipping twine. Just insert halfway through the link, fold it over on itself, and sew the halves together.

Only takes @30 minutes from start to finish to measure and attach each marker to an entire length of chain. At 5 bucks a pack I don't mind replacing any lost markers but in the past 5 years of full time cruising living on the hook I've only lost one. They hold up over the bow roller, windlass gypsy, and anchor locker just fine and are easy to read as they go by.

[myketch42]

Another comment on the plastic chain markers that you insert in the links . The only brand I could find was sized for metric chain ...a real tight fit , but doable .. might contribute to the popping out that was mentioned earlier , mine are in , but as of yet unused

[David Mathis]

You're considering a Fortress to save weight but carrying 275' of chain? That's close to 200 pounds more than you need. It's unlikely that you would realize any significant holding advantage by using more than 75'-100' of chain. Unless adverse conditions are experienced, anchoring in 20-30' can provide reasonable scope with just the chain; more scope for storms brings the nylon into the mix and gives the stretch needed to eliminate or greatly reduce the shock typical of using only chain.



As to your anchor choice, some anchors seem to work well in some bottoms but not so good in others. Based on my experience, the Danforth is one of the best in soft mud while the Delta is just about useless there. However, the Delta seems to be great in cobble or coarse gravel where the Danforth often has problems holding in that type of bottom. It's to your advantage to carry more than one type of anchor. Check with the locals (Ask the ones that actually anchor for a few days in various conditions, not those who go for daytime rides and anchor only in nice weather while the kids swim.) what they recommend and if certain areas are better with a different anchor.

[robert sailor]

I think your plan is well thought out and it should serve you very well. I’m an all chain guy. Our first kick at the cruising can was sailing from BC to the Baja over to Hawaii and back to BC. I went rope and chain to save weight. In the crowded anchorages in Mexico it’s normal on all chain rode for boats to hang right over top of the chain but not so much with chain/rope mix. The worst is on really still nights where we floated around the anchorage and we were later Nic named “pinball” and it stuck…Next boat was all chain!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Opinion: We cruisers carry around far too much weight, like a turtle, thinking it makes no difference. Compromize is always necessary based on experience and values. Everyone is different.

Weight is the enemy of sailing performance; so if you care at all about sailing, you have to think about weight.


That being said, the type of boat makes an enormous difference to how much weight can be carried with what performance hit. Performance catamaran counts every gram; small or very light monos care a lot about even modest amounts of weight, as do even pretty heavy cats; large and/or heavy mono can carry a lot more weight without any noticeable difference.


Steve Dashew thought that heavy chain was not worth it, and specified high grade chain, a size smaller (10mm G70 on his 65' Sundeers, for example). Put the weight into the anchor, he said (80kg Bruce on the same boat). I'm a huge fan of Dashew, but heavy chain has HUGE benefits in anchoring performance. Yes, not in ultimate holding power, as Dashew proved in one of his articles, but ultimate holding power is far from the only important quality in anchoring. A huge benefit of a larger monohull is the ability to carry heavy chain without significant compromise of sailing performance.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Steve Dashew thought that heavy chain was not worth it, and specified high grade chain, a size smaller (10mm G70 on his 65' Sundeers, for example). Put the weight into the anchor, he said (80kg Bruce on the same boat). I'm a huge fan of Dashew, but heavy chain has HUGE benefits in anchoring performance. Yes, not in ultimate holding power, as Dashew proved in one of his articles, but ultimate holding power is far from the only important quality in anchoring. A huge benefit of a larger monohull is the ability to carry heavy chain without significant compromise of sailing performance.

He was also a proponent of running chain back along the deck to a windlass placed further aft. That way you could carry more chain without having as much weight in the bow.



As far as heavy chain vs lighter, stronger chain, it depends a bit on the boat. Many boats are limited by either weight capacity, chain locker volume, or both. If forced to choose, I'd rather have more chain than heavier chain, although heavy is nice to have (at least partly for comfort) as you said.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

He was also a proponent of running chain back along the deck to a windlass placed further aft. That way you could carry more chain without having as much weight in the bow.
. . . .

Well, of course.

If you're lucky enough to have your boat built that way, then you can have all the chain you want.

If it's really well designed, the weight of the chain replaces some of the ballast, so is really free.

That's the holy grail.

The rest of us have to deal with ordinary boats, with the chain in the bow, with all the attendant limitations of that.