New Anchor Chain

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

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The ropes would need to be 150m+ each for that. Maybe they could be made out of Acera Amundsen to keep the weight and bulk in reasonable limits. The boats I saw with reels on deck seemed to be using polyprop, and in huge quantities, maybe hundreds of meters.

polypro is common, as is Polyolefin. Dyneema is terrific but less common because of cost. We had different sizes - two pieces were 200m, and several others were 100m. Commnly you only go like 30-50m, but it is helpful ocasionally to be able to reach out a distance.

Another issue with shore ties is what do you tie TO.

Big rocks are good - I tried chain and wire and cargo webbing sling, but did not like dealing with these so ended up using dyneema slings (old sheets, usually double wrapped around rock). You can hand place anchors (like say a big fortresses) if the soil or snow allow (and there are specialized snow and ice anchors). There is climbing kit you can use, but you need to know what you are doing because they are not designed for this use case Rock bolts and trees (in highish latitides) are both frowned upon for environmental reasons.

people do commonly do this on the peninsula which is about as barren and frozen as the west coast of greenland.

I can tell you just hate the idea tho . . .thats fine, each to his own. It's ofc not necessary. You would come around if you went down to chile and got used to it.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

people do commonly do this on the peninsula which is about as barren and frozen as the west coast of greenland.

Yah

Do not tie to trees

Don’t do it

In most situations I use a very small Bruce anchor wedged into a rock crevice

Pieces of cable and chain are also handy

A piece of stout timber or steel pipe should also be in your locker

chafe guards should be available, particularly if the region has substantial tide

The problem with stern too is that the crew sent ashore must have a very good eye for anchor points

[rslifkin]

Ideally, you'd equip for either situation. If arriving in questionable weather, I'd personally take the deep anchorage over trying to run out a shore tie in questionable conditions.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

. . . You would come around if you went down to chile and got used to it.

Chile -- and Patagonia -- are also in my plans.



I did not intend that it would be in this plastic boat, but successive economic blows including the Corona crisis probably means I'm stuck with this plastic boat for a while.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Chile -- and Patagonia -- are also in my plans.



I did not intend that it would be in this plastic boat, but successive economic blows including the Corona crisis probably means I'm stuck with this plastic boat for a while.

going a bit off-topic . . . . but your boat is pretty awesome for Patagonia - overkill even.

S. Georgia and the Peninsula are the 'metal boat' destinations . . . but even there loads of plastic boats and there is no history of ice damage to them. They lose 2 or 3 boats a season down there, and almost always it is the weather (which is typically harsher than the summer in the North) that overwhelms them, often when under crewed. Your boat is pretty solid for harsh weather and you take strong crew, so I would suggest you are all good to go .

[s/v Jedi]

I would opt for 120m of 10mm G7.

On corrosion: when I store the chain not to use it for a while, I first rinse itwith fresh water -while in the chain locker- then let it dry for a day, then empty a can of WD40 into the chain locker. Chain stays good; mine is 15 years old now and still in great shape (I did end-for-end it).

Before people comment on WD40 running from the chain locker drain: this is just fish oil, no problems

[thataway41]

#3 and plenty of rope rode. If space is an issue, the 8 plait. 12mm HT is pretty strong. Weight is good, at least in moderate weather.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I jettisoned my anchor chain in Denmark, prior to participating in a long distance race. It was in need of galvanization and I pretty much gave up finding any place to have this done, instead deciding to buy a new chain after the race.


So here I am, and I'm trying to decide what to choose.


I have been using 100 meters (330 feet) of 12mm chain, weighing 330kg or a third of a metric tonne. It's a lot of weight in the bow. Although I have to say that I can't see that it affects trim and I don't really notice much difference in sailing performance.


So do I buy a new batch of chain like that, or something different?


Another issue -- I anchor a fair amount in deep water. In Greenland, I was forced to anchor in 40 meters of water a couple of times. I could have used a bit more than 100 meters of rode.



Choices:


1. Same same -- 100m of 12mm. I found G40 chain from Titan Canada (manufacturer of Rocna anchors) for a reasonable price -- about €1200 including shipping to where I am in the Baltics.



2. Do the Dashew thing and go to 100m of G70 or G80 10mm chain, saving 1/3 of the weight. This would require a new gypsy. So far the only G70 chain I found is in Germany and costs €2000 for 100m or nearly double the cost of G40, without shipping.


3. Do less 12mm chain and add rope. I guess 90% of the time I don't need more than 70m of chain or even less of that. So if I went with 60m or 70m of 12mm chain and add 80m or 100m of 20mm rope -- that's intriguing. Would give me ability to really put out a lot of rode if I anchor again in really deep water like in Greenland. Yet save a lot of weight, 30% or 40%. No gypsy change required -- my gypsy will do 12mm chain and will handle also 20mm three-strand rope.


4. Same thing except G70 10mm chain and 16mm rope.





Thoughts?

Dockhead, I was impressed by a cruiser from Europe who had a combination chain/dyneema rode. He had 100' of chain and got the benefit of the weight and chafe resistance, and the dyneema was stronger than the chain, and being so lightweight he could have as much as he ever needed on the bow.

Personally, I like all chain and am willing to sacrifice performance to do so.

Before I upgraded to 500' of chain I routinely attached my secondary rope rode to extend the 330' of chain I had at the time for deeper anchorages, which actually was easy and worked well.

[thataway41]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Dockhead, I was impressed by a cruiser from Europe who had a combination chain/dyneema rode. He had 100' of chain and got the benefit of the weight and chafe resistance, and the dyneema was stronger than the chain, and being so lightweight he could have as much as he ever needed on the bow.

Personally, I like all chain and am willing to sacrifice performance to do so.

Before I upgraded to 500' of chain I routinely attached my secondary rope rode to extend the 330' of chain I had at the time for deeper anchorages, which actually was easy and worked well.

There are a lot of advantages Dyeema (or similar), but unless you are going to have a reel winch, or have a vertical axis capstan/chain gypsy combination where you can easily slip the chain onto the gypsy under load, it is very difficult to "hand" the thin and slippery Dyneema. Is there a solution for that?

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by thataway41

There are a lot of advantages Dyeema (or similar), but unless you are going to have a reel winch, or have a vertical axis capstan/chain gypsy combination where you can easily slip the chain onto the gypsy under load, it is very difficult to "hand" the thin and slippery Dyneema. Is there a solution for that?

Good question, I didn't observe him raising anchor, but my windlass has a rope drum on one side and a chain gypsy on the other, which is how I raise a combination of rope/chain, so wouldn't that work with dyneema?

Alternatively, I could use my mast winch, which would get the dyneema up until the chain is on the gypsy.

[thataway41]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Good question, I didn't observe him raising anchor, but my windlass has a rope drum on one side and a chain gypsy on the other, which is how I raise a combination of rope/chain, so wouldn't that work with dyneema?

Alternatively, I could use my mast winch, which would get the dyneema up until the chain is on the gypsy.

Although all of these will work, they do require tailing the Dyneema by hand (gloved) and it is thin and slippery. Then there is the issue of transferring the Dyneema to the deck pipe so that the chain will follow all under load. All of this requires that someone is driving the boat up to over the anchor, where the boat will pull the anchor out of the sea bed. The chain must then be secured either with a chain stopper or chain hook as the boat pulls out the anchor. Still have the problem of feeding the Dyneema. It gets even wilder if you are in seas or heavy wind as you try and do this. That is why all chain, or rope chain gypsy are best practice for a serious cruising boat.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Chile -- and Patagonia -- are also in my plans.

I did not intend that it would be in this plastic boat, but successive economic blows including the Corona crisis probably means I'm stuck with this plastic boat for a while.

Careful, you may never want to leave! As Breaking Waves says, your boat would be perfectly fine in Patagonia. There is not as much ice as you are used to in Greenland and most of that is limited to the areas in front of the glaciers. We have spent the last 2 seasons down there in our eggshell catamaran without any damage, but we do avoid the thicker ice.



We use line bags for shore ties much as Breaking Waves describes, long and narrow so that the bottom rests on the cockpit floor to take the weight off during retrieval and make flaking easier. We added straps that go around your neck to hold the bag up as well as lengths of hose or battens to keep them open. I can retrieve lines faster than my wife can row back to the boat using these bags.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

...Before people comment on WD40 running from the chain locker drain: this is just fish oil, no problems

Nope, WD-40 is petroleum oil with anti-corrosion additives. From the WD 40 site:


Myth: WD-40® contains fish oil.

Fact: Consumers have told us over the years that they have caught some of the biggest fish ever after protecting their fish hooks and lures with WD-40®. We believe this legend came from folks assuming that the product must contain fish oil since it appears to attract fish. Sorry Charlie®, it just ain’t so.
WD-40 Company has taken steps to respect and conserve the environment, and encourages its users to do the same. While WD-40® can be used to help protect fishing equipment from rust and corrosion, WD-40 Company does not recommend using WD-40® to attract fish.


https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/mup/w...voc-us-ghs.pdf

So a sheen is a violation of international law. Sorry, too many years in the industry. But you did not do your homework on that.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Nope, WD-40 is petroleum oil with anti-corrosion additives. From the WD 40 site:


Myth: WD-40® contains fish oil.

Fact: Consumers have told us over the years that they have caught some of the biggest fish ever after protecting their fish hooks and lures with WD-40®. We believe this legend came from folks assuming that the product must contain fish oil since it appears to attract fish. Sorry Charlie®, it just ain’t so.
WD-40 Company has taken steps to respect and conserve the environment, and encourages its users to do the same. While WD-40® can be used to help protect fishing equipment from rust and corrosion, WD-40 Company does not recommend using WD-40® to attract fish.


https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/mup/w...voc-us-ghs.pdf

So a sheen is a violation of international law. Sorry, too many years in the industry. But you did not do your homework on that.

Got it... seems fake news has been going on longer than I knew. Wired magazine had it checked by a lab: mainly mineral (baby) oil and vaseline

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

For chain, I guess I'm leaning toward just biting the bullet and doing another 100m of 12mm.

I guess the first question is a replacement gypsy available for 10mm chain to fit your windlass? and at a sensible price. If not, then 12mm it is, because changing the whole windlass would be way over the top.

Pete