New to anchoring - appreciate advice/opinions

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Spade Anchor

In the video Panope notes that he prefers the Spade over the Sarca due to the curves of the Spade. ..

Correct me if wrong:
1. the Spade (whether alu or steel version) has a hollow tip filled with lead (whereas Rocna / Mantus / etc have a roll bar). Every five years or so we must re-galvanize steel anchors. Q: How does one re-galvanize a steel Spade?
2. In order to be classified as 'Super-high Holding Power', the latest generation SHP anchors must have ? 4 times ? the holding power of previous generation HHP anchors. Q: Why would anyone forego that added safety nowadays?

[Kenomac]

OP,

Purchase an oversized Ultra Anchor, Ultra Swivel and 100% chain rode, then sleep well...

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Sailmon

...Her Diamond (our Freedom 38) is almost ready for retirement cruising... ... ... Bob

Geeze - sounds idyllic - enjoy!

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

OP,

Purchase an oversized Ultra Anchor, Ultra Swivel and 100% chain rode, then sleep well...

Why pick on Ultra? There are many other SHP anchors on the market to choose from, other swivels too, and some research through the independent tests (not the manufacturer's promos) seems important if we want the best for our own particular needs.
(Debate on anchors often seems to turn heated, so I'm no way going to push my own preference.)

[Cujo665]

Danforth.
20% of rode in chain
I.E. - 40 feet chain to 200 feet triple braid
7:1 ratio prior to setting

Depth 20 feet = set out 140 feet total then set.

Hasn't failed in New England sometimes rocky, sometimes sandy, sometimes muddy waters....

[chris mac]

Wow, these threads get heated fast. Same as talking about cuba, or guns, or cats... Maybe we sailors are all just ornery old bastards:-?
As for anchors, just like boats, try as many as you can and see what works best for you. Like boats, I am partial to the newer models, many are not. Old models of both have worked for decades or longer. But newer technology may just work better. Try it and see.
I am limited on the anchors I've used. Danforth, Bruce, Spade, and rocna. In my experience the Spade out performed the others by a dramatic amount. Enough so that I am hooked(bwa haha)
And just to offer a comment in support of (user name) Spade anchors. I have met him in person and he is a good guy, and truly believes in his product.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Correct me if wrong:
1. the Spade (whether alu or steel version) has a hollow tip filled with lead (whereas Rocna / Mantus / etc have a roll bar). Every five years or so we must re-galvanize steel anchors. Q: How does one re-galvanize a steel Spade?
2. In order to be classified as 'Super-high Holding Power', the latest generation SHP anchors must have ? 4 times ? the holding power of previous generation HHP anchors. Q: Why would anyone forego that added safety nowadays?

This likely would not have happened to an anchor with SHHP or HHP clasification.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by downunder

This likely would not have happened to an anchor with SHHP or HHP clasification.

I don't think we can make that statement as we don't know what happened.
Irresistible force, immovable object, something has to give

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by downunder

This likely would not have happened to an anchor with SHHP or HHP clasification.

I'd like to propose another explanation for that picture: the tip got caught under a concrete mooring block (something that happened to us, once), and efforts to extract it exceeded the anchor's tip's specs. The anchor could have been properly sized for the vessel, and this could still happen, with no blame to the manufacturer. We bent one fluke of a genuine Bruce that way. Anchors are not designed to lift mooring blocks.

I really doubt any anchor is, by virtue of its manufacture, entirely safe with regards to mutilation. People do anchor in places with years of discards and jetsam fouling the bottom, and sometimes the anchor gives, sometimes the windlass.

Something I wanted to say with regards to anchors with lead in the tips is that they can be a real headache at re-galvinizing time, we've seen folks having to re-lead them each time.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't think we can make that statement as we don't know what happened.
Irresistible force, immovable object, something has to give

Whilst they seem to be a well performing anchor and fast setting there certainly seems to be a strength issue. A weak point perhaps in the design and definitely something that is not going to happen every day.

The toe is not reinforced/boxed just a long piece of flat plate that makes it potentially susceptable to bending. Pilot - Would this happen with a Spade or Ultra?

[JPA Cate]

Things seem to have calmed down, here, a bit. More than one person was rude and provocative. More will not be tolerated.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I'd like to propose another explanation for that picture: the tip got caught under a concrete mooring block (something that happened to us, once), and efforts to extract it exceeded the anchor's tip's specs. The anchor could have been properly sized for the vessel, and this could still happen, with no blame to the manufacturer. We bent one fluke of a genuine Bruce that way. Anchors are not designed to lift mooring blocks.

I really doubt any anchor is, by virtue of its manufacture, entirely safe with regards to mutilation. People do anchor in places with years of discards and jetsam fouling the bottom, and sometimes the anchor gives, sometimes the windlass.

Something I wanted to say with regards to anchors with lead in the tips is that they can be a real headache at re-galvinizing time, we've seen folks having to re-lead them each time.

Have to agree Ann with what you are saving and that any anchor could meet its match but i really think this a design weakness has been exposed in my view. A long unreinforced tip in this case. We also do not know the strength of the tip steel. Others might.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by downunder

Whilst they seem to be a well performing anchor and fast setting there certainly seems to be a strength issue. A weak point perhaps in the design and definitely something that is not going to happen every day.

The toe is not reinforced/boxed just a long piece of flat plate that makes it potentially susceptable to bending. Pilot - Would this happen with a Spade or Ultra?

I have no idea, but everything has a weak link, exceed design specs by a significant amount and it will break if it's properly designed.
Myself I would liked to have seen a different failure mode, however not knowing what happened, nor what may or may not has been done to this anchor, who knows?
People will sometimes do strange things to anchors, weld and drill holes and otherwise modify them.

One off the anchor manufacturers that I assume has a difficult design to regalvanize has come on here and I believe stated that needed to be regalvanized is a warrantable action, they would replace it under warranty.
Not sure which one though, but I was real surprised by that as I see zinc wearing off as normal wear and tear myself, I would have never asked for warranty.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have no idea, but everything has a weak link, exceed design specs by a significant amount and it will break if it's properly designed.
Myself I would liked to have seen a different failure mode, however not knowing what happened, nor what may or may not has been done to this anchor, who knows?
People will sometimes do strange things to anchors, weld and drill holes and otherwise modify them.

One off the anchor manufacturers that I assume has a difficult design to regalvanize has come on here and I believe stated that needed to be regalvanized is a warrantable action, they would replace it under warranty.
Not sure which one though, but I was real surprised by that as I see zinc wearing off as normal wear and tear myself, I would have never asked for warranty.

Have to agree. Its a worrying failure mode.

Agree also that depending on bottom types some bottoms can really test galvanising on both anchor and chain and wear of gal seems fair wear an tear to me.

Still that don't be an issue for Ken with his shiny Ultra.

[cheoah]

Listen to everyone saying don't skimp on your bower anchor, and oversize it a little. The one you set nightly. If you're cruising the east coast and Bahamas just make sure you've got 50' of the appropriate chain (chain details and quality are crucial) but you do not need a couple hundred lbs of chain rusting away in your chain locker. That's weight you need for water and other useful stuff.

If you decide to head to the pacific, you'll need more than just chain and you can add more then. Then the 50' section can go to a spare anchor.

Here is a Proven formula for cruising the area you're intending:

1) carry a new generation anchor like a Mantus on a ~50' length of chain, backed by 200' 3 strand. That's extra line for splicing elsewhere, but more better if you have room. It's light.

2) carry a danforth anchor on your stern as an emergency brake on the waterway or for Bahamian moor or setting second anchor, or kedge. Need at least 30' chain for this. Think about where a line will load before you toss an anchor over your stern. Make sure led fair.

3) stow a big aluminum fortress anchor broken down. Use this for storms, kedge, backup, whatever.

The above will handle what you need and will save weight. Practice lots in good conditions and understand the forces involved, develop a routine. You can easily lose fingers in a storm. Always get ahead of that stuff and try not to be handling gear in a near gale.

Not rushing, and good decision-making will help while you master your ground tackle. Just like everything else with cruising. Plan for early anchorages to avoid setting gear once conditions pipe up, if forecasted. Study you charts and guides and pay attention to exposure and forecasted conditions. You'll discover that avoiding anchoring where it's wide open with lots of fetch in a blow is top priority. My wife would get sick at anchor. it can wear you out but I've done it a lot and can't be avoided sometimes.

Eventually you'll have the experience to push it more. I hesitate to say this but with the modern anchors you could pretty much let it roll off the bow in a blow, lock it down at 7:1 or more, and you're unlikely to move. But ideally, imagine the anchor tip touching the bottom, then the chain being paid out flat along the sea bottom as you drift backwards with current or wind. Always pay out more scope if you have the room. Add a few feet for your bow to waterline and make sure you understand your offset for depth sounder. I've seen people use too little scope with these two overlooked.

Mark your rode, know what you're putting out. You'll know your chain length, and many times you'll be paying out your chain and 20' or less of your line.

Add lots of good chafe protection, and use high quality hardware, like Crosby or similar for shackle, and mouse w appropriate wire. If you pay attention to all of these details on high quality gear, and spend some time learning in moderate conditions, you'll be confident soon. Don't worry there will be plenty left to learn if you keep stretching your horizons. I recommend learning a rolling hitch before buying 200' chain for the Bahamas!