New Windlass: Lewmar, Maxwell, Lofrans Or?

[Muckle Flugga]

I agree with Dockhead and CarlF about Lewmar. Despite their having produced some good kit in the past and still now, I have come to the point where I have some significant disdain for that company. Unless you know someone you can communicate with directly on a personal basis on the "inside" (as I now do) I and others have found them incommunicative, rather high handed, slow to react to orders, and with many, perhaps deliberate, design flaws. Why deliberate? Well for one thing they INSIST on using aluminium in conjunction with mild steel, bronze and stainless in their machines, be it winches or windlasses; and for critical components. These almost ALWAYS corrode, as you might expect, being bolted into a perfect battery configuration. As Dockhead suggests you cannot purchase these corroded parts individually but must repurchase the entire assemblage. In the case of the winches the parts in question are the bases, which in the case of powered winches frequently corrode around the seal housing, rendering the whole useless. In the case of their vertical windlasses, the "basket" which separates the gearbox from the underdeck, and through which passes the spline shaft, is always aluminium and nearly always corrodes severely. In some cases I have known them to corrode to nothing at all and finally snap off in the middle, dropping the windlass motor an gear assembly to the floor of its housing to the astonishment of the boat's owner (not boats I was working on at the time, but ones I have been asked to help). Of course regular maintenance helps. But believe me on boats I have worked on, and my own, I check and service (including motor disassembly and cleaning) thoroughly on a regular basis (bi annually usually) and use corrosion inhibitor on all parts. It makes little real difference. To the poster above who has said that they have had good operation for the past two years… beware: check the basket carefully for signs of corrosion, especially right under the deck, as it is likely turning to cheese without you realising it. Usually this process takes 3 to 5 years to become really noticeable or critical. And can you buy the "basket" as a consumable? Can you hell. As Dockhead says you have to buy the ENTIRE windlass again, including the perfectly serviceable above deck parts. I can think of a good reason for this policy, but it is not a pretty one! Attached is an exemplar photo of the corrosion of the basket of one such windlass I took recently. In this case the windlass is around 5 years old.

LEWMAR: if you are a Lewmar employee or director and are reading this: PLEASE TAKE NOTE! This policy is damaging the reputation of your company and indeed it is frankly unreasonable and unfair to clients. I have raised this issue with you directly on numerous occasions and have found you to be thoroughly unresponsive.

[UNCIVILIZED]

The Maxwell VW Series has several things going for it, aside from their good reliability record, for like half a century.
- You can run the capstan & gypsy independently of each other
- You can use the capstan as a power winch, for all kinds of chores
- It can be mounted so that the motor is NOT in the chain locker, & thus isn't subject to salt spray & or submersion
- It has the option of various remotes, so it's operable from spots besides the foredeck

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

I agree with Dockhead and CarlF about Lewmar. Despite their having produced some good kit in the past and still now, I have come to the point where I have some significant disdain for that company. Unless you know someone you can communicate with directly on a personal basis on the "inside" (as I now do) I and others have found them incommunicative, rather high handed, slow to react to orders, and with many, perhaps deliberate, design flaws. Why deliberate? Well for one thing they INSIST on using aluminium in conjunction with mild steel, bronze and stainless in their machines, be it winches or windlasses; and for critical components. These almost ALWAYS corrode, as you might expect, being bolted into a perfect battery configuration. As Dockhead suggests you cannot purchase these corroded parts individually but must repurchase the entire assemblage. In the case of the winches the parts in question are the bases, which in the case of powered winches frequently corrode around the seal housing, rendering the whole useless. In the case of their vertical windlasses, the "basket" which separates the gearbox from the underdeck, and through which passes the spline shaft, is always aluminium and nearly always corrodes severely. In some cases I have known them to corrode to nothing at all and finally snap off in the middle, dropping the windlass motor an gear assembly to the floor of its housing to the astonishment of the boat's owner (not boats I was working on at the time, but ones I have been asked to help). Of course regular maintenance helps. But believe me on boats I have worked on, and my own, I check and service (including motor disassembly and cleaning) thoroughly on a regular basis (bi annually usually) and use corrosion inhibitor on all parts. It makes little real difference. To the poster above who has said that they have had good operation for the past two years… beware: check the basket carefully for signs of corrosion, especially right under the deck, as it is likely turning to cheese without you realising it. Usually this process takes 3 to 5 years to become really noticeable or critical. And can you buy the "basket" as a consumable? Can you hell. As Dockhead says you have to buy the ENTIRE windlass again, including the perfectly serviceable above deck parts. I can think of a good reason for this policy, but it is not a pretty one! Attached is an exemplar photo of the corrosion of the basket of one such windlass I took recently. In this case the windlass is around 5 years old.

LEWMAR: if you are a Lewmar employee or director and are reading this: PLEASE TAKE NOTE! This policy is damaging the reputation of your company and indeed it is frankly unreasonable and unfair to clients. I have raised this issue with you directly on numerous occasions and have found you to be thoroughly unresponsive.

Take that to any good machine shop and have them make one. If it is aluminum you can buy a chunk of rod for less than $70. My guy took less than an hour of machine work. It would take more time if it is steel. In steel it may make more sense to get a length of tube and weld the flanges on.

If they think it is for a farm machine it will probably cost less. )

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

I agree with Dockhead and CarlF about Lewmar. Despite their having produced some good kit in the past and still now, I have come to the point where I have some significant disdain for that company. Unless you know someone you can communicate with directly on a personal basis on the "inside" (as I now do) I and others have found them incommunicative, rather high handed, slow to react to orders, and with many, perhaps deliberate, design flaws. Why deliberate? Well for one thing they INSIST on using aluminium in conjunction with mild steel, bronze and stainless in their machines, be it winches or windlasses; and for critical components. These almost ALWAYS corrode, as you might expect, being bolted into a perfect battery configuration. As Dockhead suggests you cannot purchase these corroded parts individually but must repurchase the entire assemblage. In the case of the winches the parts in question are the bases, which in the case of powered winches frequently corrode around the seal housing, rendering the whole useless. In the case of their vertical windlasses, the "basket" which separates the gearbox from the underdeck, and through which passes the spline shaft, is always aluminium and nearly always corrodes severely. In some cases I have known them to corrode to nothing at all and finally snap off in the middle, dropping the windlass motor an gear assembly to the floor of its housing to the astonishment of the boat's owner (not boats I was working on at the time, but ones I have been asked to help). Of course regular maintenance helps. But believe me on boats I have worked on, and my own, I check and service (including motor disassembly and cleaning) thoroughly on a regular basis (bi annually usually) and use corrosion inhibitor on all parts. It makes little real difference. To the poster above who has said that they have had good operation for the past two years… beware: check the basket carefully for signs of corrosion, especially right under the deck, as it is likely turning to cheese without you realising it. Usually this process takes 3 to 5 years to become really noticeable or critical. And can you buy the "basket" as a consumable? Can you hell. As Dockhead says you have to buy the ENTIRE windlass again, including the perfectly serviceable above deck parts. I can think of a good reason for this policy, but it is not a pretty one! Attached is an exemplar photo of the corrosion of the basket of one such windlass I took recently. In this case the windlass is around 5 years old.

LEWMAR: if you are a Lewmar employee or director and are reading this: PLEASE TAKE NOTE! This policy is damaging the reputation of your company and indeed it is frankly unreasonable and unfair to clients. I have raised this issue with you directly on numerous occasions and have found you to be thoroughly unresponsive.

+X You guys are FAR from the only ones on this. I deal a lot with deck hardware, from the standpoint of outfitting/re-fitting racing boats from time to time. And in re-fitting cruisers, also. And the number of Lewmar blocks which I've seen fail at a small fraction of their rated load is rediculous. Plus, I've heard more tales along the same lines than I can count.

That, & getting quality customer service, even when I'd take the time to call the UK from the US, even 10-20yrs ago, when it wassn't cheap to do so, was like pulling teeth.
Yet, when I ring up, say, Harken, they're always happy to help, & plenty of times have gone above & beyond what I or anyone would expect, based on what was asked of them.
The kind of service which keeps one going back to a company time & again.
Also, I've compartively beat the crap out of Harken's deck gear, & at the end of the day, usually all it wants for is routine TLC.

When it comes to windlasses, I get the same vibe from Maxwell. Although, frankly, on all of the boats I've worked on, all that I've ever had to do to a Maxwell, fell under the header of routine service. Almost regardless of how they'd been treated.
Although, like a nice car (BMW, Lexus, etc.) if you have a nice piece of hardware like a Maxwell, you're likely to give it that little bit extra TLC because, as goofy as it sounds, you love it (a little or a lot). And want to be able to depend on it at Zero Dark Thirty, when everything else has gone to crap.

Thus endeth the sermon

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

+X You guys are FAR from the only ones on this. I deal a lot with deck hardware, from the standpoint of outfitting/re-fitting racing boats from time to time. And in re-fitting cruisers, also. And the number of Lewmar blocks which I've seen fail at a small fraction of their rated load is rediculous. Plus, I've heard more tales along the same lines than I can count.

Good sermon!

I have had horrible experience with Lewmar blocks. Cheeks rotted away after less than two years.

Twice.

Crap stuff.

Replaced with Garhauer. All my OEM and replacement Garhauer stock is in perfect condition, anywhere from 30 to 16 years later.

Geez, who woulda thought...

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

Take that to any good machine shop and have them make one. If it is aluminum you can buy a chunk of rod for less than $70. My guy took less than an hour of machine work. It would take more time if it is steel. In steel it may make more sense to get a length of tube and weld the flanges on.

If they think it is for a farm machine it will probably cost less. )

My thoughts exactly and already. I have one in process with a superb machinist for this very unit.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

+X You guys are FAR from the only ones on this. I deal a lot with deck hardware, from the standpoint of outfitting/re-fitting racing boats from time to time. And in re-fitting cruisers, also. And the number of Lewmar blocks which I've seen fail at a small fraction of their rated load is rediculous. Plus, I've heard more tales along the same lines than I can count.

That, & getting quality customer service, even when I'd take the time to call the UK from the US, even 10-20yrs ago, when it wassn't cheap to do so, was like pulling teeth.
Yet, when I ring up, say, Harken, they're always happy to help, & plenty of times have gone above & beyond what I or anyone would expect, based on what was asked of them.
The kind of service which keeps one going back to a company time & again.
Also, I've compartively beat the crap out of Harken's deck gear, & at the end of the day, usually all it wants for is routine TLC.

When it comes to windlasses, I get the same vibe from Maxwell. Although, frankly, on all of the boats I've worked on, all that I've ever had to do to a Maxwell, fell under the header of routine service. Almost regardless of how they'd been treated.
Although, like a nice car (BMW, Lexus, etc.) if you have a nice piece of hardware like a Maxwell, you're likely to give it that little bit extra TLC because, as goofy as it sounds, you love it (a little or a lot). And want to be able to depend on it at Zero Dark Thirty, when everything else has gone to crap.

Thus endeth the sermon

+5 Yes to all.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

I agree with Dockhead and CarlF about Lewmar. Despite their having produced some good kit in the past and still now, I have come to the point where I have some significant disdain for that company. Unless you know someone you can communicate with directly on a personal basis on the "inside" (as I now do) I and others have found them incommunicative, rather high handed, slow to react to orders, and with many, perhaps deliberate, design flaws. Why deliberate? Well for one thing they INSIST on using aluminium in conjunction with mild steel, bronze and stainless in their machines, be it winches or windlasses; and for critical components. These almost ALWAYS corrode, as you might expect, being bolted into a perfect battery configuration. As Dockhead suggests you cannot purchase these corroded parts individually but must repurchase the entire assemblage. In the case of the winches the parts in question are the bases, which in the case of powered winches frequently corrode around the seal housing, rendering the whole useless. In the case of their vertical windlasses, the "basket" which separates the gearbox from the underdeck, and through which passes the spline shaft, is always aluminium and nearly always corrodes severely. In some cases I have known them to corrode to nothing at all and finally snap off in the middle, dropping the windlass motor an gear assembly to the floor of its housing to the astonishment of the boat's owner (not boats I was working on at the time, but ones I have been asked to help). Of course regular maintenance helps. But believe me on boats I have worked on, and my own, I check and service (including motor disassembly and cleaning) thoroughly on a regular basis (bi annually usually) and use corrosion inhibitor on all parts. It makes little real difference. To the poster above who has said that they have had good operation for the past two years… beware: check the basket carefully for signs of corrosion, especially right under the deck, as it is likely turning to cheese without you realising it. Usually this process takes 3 to 5 years to become really noticeable or critical. And can you buy the "basket" as a consumable? Can you hell. As Dockhead says you have to buy the ENTIRE windlass again, including the perfectly serviceable above deck parts. I can think of a good reason for this policy, but it is not a pretty one! Attached is an exemplar photo of the corrosion of the basket of one such windlass I took recently. In this case the windlass is around 5 years old.

LEWMAR: if you are a Lewmar employee or director and are reading this: PLEASE TAKE NOTE! This policy is damaging the reputation of your company and indeed it is frankly unreasonable and unfair to clients. I have raised this issue with you directly on numerous occasions and have found you to be thoroughly unresponsive.

What is Maxwell's "basket" / gearbox made of? My Lofrans Progress 1000 looks just like my old Lewmar Concept 1 windlass... aluminum gearbox with a black finish as shown in your photo. I didn't know anyone made a gear box in anything but aluminum. Also, don't they all have mild steel motor housings? The only difference I have seen is Quick's plastic cased motor and gearbox.

Matt


Edit: Just checked Maxwell's site. Seems they use anodized aluminum for their vertical windlass gearbox too. Coatings may be better on some brands, but the base component's material seem to be the same.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

What is Maxwell's "basket" / gearbox made of? My Lofrans Progress 1000 looks just like my old Lewmar Concept 1 windlass... aluminum gearbox with a black finish as shown in your photo. I didn't know anyone made a gear box in anything but aluminum. Also, don't they all have mild steel motor housings? The only difference I have seen is Quick's plastic cased motor and gearbox.

Matt


Edit: Just checked Maxwell's site. Seems they use anodized aluminum for their vertical windlass gearbox too. Coatings may be better on some brands, but the base component's material seem to be the same.

The coating can be all the difference.


Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Scout 30]

I'm trying to install a used Lofrans Tigress in place of my Simpson Lawrence Anchorman & could use some help. The Anchorman motor only has 2 terminals & the Tigress motor has 3, 1 positive for up, 1 positive for down & the ground. I have a reversing solenoid with only 2 output wires. Can I use my reversing solenoid with the Tigress? I'm thinking running a line to from each of the solenoid outputs to the 2 positive terminals on the motor & attaching a ground line from the ground in terminal of the solenoid coming from the battery. Or should I not run a ground to the solenoid at all & just run it straight to the windlass?

[antoha]

Dockhead: lighthouse 1501 horizontal windlass has the motor under decks like normal vertical windlasses. Does that bother you? Ideal is all above deck, so are most other horizontal ones, but not the lighthouse.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The coating can be all the difference.


Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The coating on the Lofrans Project 1000/1500 is sub standard. Any water that leaks down around the shaft collects at the top of the gearbox and rots it out. There are drain holes but it corrodes away anyway. Pretty much a pos.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

What is Maxwell's "basket" / gearbox made of? My Lofrans Progress 1000 looks just like my old Lewmar Concept 1 windlass... aluminum gearbox with a black finish as shown in your photo. I didn't know anyone made a gear box in anything but aluminum. Also, don't they all have mild steel motor housings? The only difference I have seen is Quick's plastic cased motor and gearbox.

Matt


Edit: Just checked Maxwell's site. Seems they use anodized aluminum for their vertical windlass gearbox too. Coatings may be better on some brands, but the base component's material seem to be the same.

The older model Ideals are all steel and bronze. In any case, here's the fix for that crappy aluminium "basket" idea. Got the technical go ahead from my Lewmar insider. The old one is next to the unit, and the yellow crud is fresh corrosion inhibitor.

[Lewmar Support]

Hello Muckel Flugger

I am sorry to see that you have had issue getting in contact with a Lewmar
representative and i would like to offer my advice and services. i am a member of the Lewmar technical support team and we have a dedicated email for just this reason.

I will be happy to help with any and all questions sent to me at,

techsupport@lewmar.com

there are a team of us happy to help and one the needs advise or has any questions.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Lewmar Support

Hello Muckel Flugger

I am sorry to see that you have had issue getting in contact with a Lewmar
representative and i would like to offer my advice and services. i am a member of the Lewmar technical support team and we have a dedicated email for just this reason.

I will be happy to help with any and all questions sent to me at,

techsupport@lewmar.com

there are a team of us happy to help and one the needs advise or has any questions.

Well that's a turn up for the books! For a start, you can have a think about your policy of whole assembly replacement for the failure of a single engineered part, particularly one which so regularly fails. This being the basket on your vertical windlasses. Forcing customers to junk, store or sell as spares all the other components merely due to the (common) failure of this one component is really a bad policy, and has led to bad feeling on my part and on the parts of others I have known, and indeed others on this thread. However your public contact here is definitely a step in the right direction with regard to customer service. Though it's "Muckle Flugga"