No Windlass - Largest Anchor ?

[Azul]

The boat I recently purchased came with a tiny Danforth and a larger but still small 25# Danforth and 6 feet of chain. There is a bow anchor roller. Presently the boat is still temporarily slipped where it was purchased but I plan to anchor out most if not all of the time, and probably can eventually find or make my own mooring locally.

From what I have learned so far, a 65 pound storm anchor (Bruce or other modern type) with 200 feet of 5/16 BBB chain is in order for storm ground tackle or just sleeping well at night, although usually people in this area use Danforth anchors I suppose due to the sandy bottom. For a 9500 pound boat that is self insured residing for now in an area prone to getting frequent "mullet blows" what is the largest anchor that a typical fit male can get on board without a windlass or a hernia? Would an anchor retrieval ball be a good idea for a largish anchor? Roughly what predicted wind strength should cause me to put the boat up "on the hard" instead of trying to ride out the storm?

[micah719]

Are you figuring heaving the anchor and rode out by brute strength alone, or using a purchase, lever, or sailhandling winch as assistance? If you're in a Danforth-friendly area, would a Fortress or its poor cousin be suitable?

[Sailmonkey]

For starters, I'm 35 and in good shape.
When we bought our boat it had roughly 30' of 5/16" chain and 200ish' of 5/8" 3 strand rhode connected to a 33Lb fake bruce. There was a manual windlass on the deck that was fairly useless except for the chain part. Pulling the nylon for me was no big deal, even in 50' of water, but once the chain came up I went to the windlass as chain is none to hand friendly, add mud to the mix and it's worse.
Go all chain and you need to really look at a windlass, We went with a 35lb manson supreme and 275' of 5/16" chain all pulled by an electric windlass. I can still pull the chain fine myself if I need to but it's still hard on the hands, in deeper anchorages it still weighs a pound a foot.
Your size boat you can IMHO get away without a windlass so long as you don't go all chain.

[Stu Jackson]

You have to develop an anchor SYSTEM sizing for your boat based on your intended use. Using a storm anchor all the time is basic overkill and quite unnecessary.

I put together this link for system sizing:

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & SwivelsGround Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

This has the tables, the rest of the link gives explanations.

I have a Catalina 34 with a 22# New Zealand (pre-Chinese) Rocna with 1/4" chain and 1/2" rode and anchor out weekly, no windlass. Anchoring techniques are important, too. But, as the link describes, I sized my SYSTEM for my needs. Most others I know with my boat use 35# anchors with 1/4" or 5/16" and either 1/2" or 5/8" rode.

Your boat, your choice.

[Azul]

To be more specific, I know I don't want to heave a 100 pound anchor out every time, but I want to minimize the risk of my ground tackle failing in moderate and high wind situations. If it's just for lunch, the 25# Danforth will work. On several threads it looks like a 40 mph wind might drag off a 2#/foot anchor. I'm not looking for convenience, I'm seeking what to put out when it looks like there might be trouble. When a hurricane is imminent, I would take the boat out of the water, but what about 40 to 74?

[Sailmonkey]

Our 35# manson anchor has held us in 50-55 knot winds without moving an inch. But it was crammed so deep into a mud bottom that we spent 30 some minutes pulling it out the next day. I had also been spooked by the bayama the night before so we were sitting on a 10:1 scope.

[hellosailor]

"Roughly what predicted wind strength should cause me to put the boat up "on the hard" instead of trying to ride out the storm? "
Not so much the wind, but the wave action. Or a windspeed above what your ground tackle was recommended for. Boats on shore are still vulnerable to wind damage, either knocking them over or dropping things on them.

But if you are looking at 200' of chain that may weigh a pound per foot, that's 200# of chain plus the anchor and you're going to go buy a windlass now. Somewhere above 50' total weight, hoisting anchor is going to get real old real fast. Unless you're anchoring in coral, I'm not sure you'd need all chain. Nice insurance, but again, who's going to lift it?

[Vasco]

If you are concerned a 40 pound anchor would be plenty for your boat and you can still haul it in by hand. Go to all chain, anchor in shallow water as much as possible so you're only hauling in the weight of 10 feet or so .. until you get to the anchor. I find the easiest way to haul in a hook by hand is to sit flat on the foredeck with your feet braced on whatever you can reach. Use only the upper body, this way you won't wreck your back.

[barnakiel]

I can hoist 20 meters of 10mm chain plus a 10 kg Bruce anchor but I would NOT like to do this everyday as my morning exercise. So, to me, 60 kg (120 pounds) is the limit of what I like to manage by hand. Some 60 pounds (toatal) is very easy though.

With a shorter chain, I believe a 35 pounder is still fine. Beware of heavy hook and plenty of chain in deep waters - the total weight can quickly become very uncomfortable!

b.

[barnakiel]

BTW I think 6 ft of chain is a joke ;-)

We started with 9 meters (30 feet) of 10 mm chain in a 26' boat and it was good for nothing. We went for 20 meters of same size chain and the difference in holding was immense.

Our second anchor has 30' chain. Our kedge has about 18' chain.

6 feet is less than what we use to chain the dinghy to the dock in less friendly states.

Cheers,
b.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Azul

To be more specific, I know I don't want to heave a 100 pound anchor out every time, but I want to minimize the risk of my ground tackle failing in moderate and high wind situations. If it's just for lunch, the 25# Danforth will work. On several threads it looks like a 40 mph wind might drag off a 2#/foot anchor. I'm not looking for convenience, I'm seeking what to put out when it looks like there might be trouble. When a hurricane is imminent, I would take the boat out of the water, but what about 40 to 74?

Deploying the anchor (of any realistic small boat weight) is the easy part. Getting it back aboard...maybe not so easy. A lot of it depends on the depth of water and the amount & size of chain.

I find that about a 45lb anchor on a chain rode in 30ft of water is a reasonable practical limit for me to lift by hand (middle aged, decent shape).

The weight of chain adds up fast. Lifting this same ground tackle in 10ft of water -- no big deal.

[virginia boy]

Last year I had a 33lb Rocna with 50ft chain at the end of my nylon rode with no windlass and and anchored in 10-20 feet of water. My thinking was that regularly hefting all that weight would be good exercise so I sold my windlass. Worst mistake I've made yet! After a month or two I rarely left the anchorage because I grew to loathe hauling up my anchor. I now own a 45lb Manson but I'm still on the hard so haven't had the pleasure of trying to lift it, but when the kitty is restocked I may buy another windlass.

Your results may vary. I'm a little guy at 5'9 and 165lb, 50 y/o and not in great shape.

edit: My 33# held in 50 mph wind. Didn't budge even an inch!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Azul

To be more specific, ... I'm seeking what to put out when it looks like there might be trouble. When a hurricane is imminent, I would take the boat out of the water, but what about 40 to 74?

The answer is in the link I provided earlier. Really. Use the tables, figure out the wind strength for your boat and the components, find an anchor that'll do that and size the chain and rode and shackles accordingly. You really have to do the math.

[sailorboy1]

You only need to be able to lift the storm anchor once in a while and you can use a winch and hook system if needed.

For your normal anchor/chain combo I would think a 25# modern anchor and chain would be fine (doesn't really matter if the chain is long as you only have to haul up the depth you anchored in but I would put at least 50' of chain on it).

I'm 52, fat, and not in great shape and can pull up my 60# anchor and 30' of 5/16 chain without a lot of problems as long as I get enough drugs afterward (have 340 feet of chain). But I wouldn't want to do it regularly.

[onestepcsy37]

first thing, get a manson supreme anchor. in 35 years of sailing with every kind of anchor you've ever seen i bought a manson supreme 2 years ago. it is unquestionably the best anchor i've ever owned. absolutely positively holds first time every time. (i'm talking florida/bahamas here).

the problem with a danforth is that it can (and often does) pull out when the current reverses. if using a danforth, don't put out one. put out two in opposite directions.

now to your question. i have a heavy 37 foot cutter. my regular anchoring gear is a 45 lb manson on 3/8" chain. i also have an old manual windlass which i rarely use. i find it easier to pull it all up by hand (although i wear work gloves because god knows what you will pull up with the chain). the admiral slowly motors forward as i pull in chain until the anchor is nearly beneath me. then i sit a minute or two to let the anchor work it's way out (those manson supreme's really dig in). then the worst part. hauling up the remaining chain and the 45lb anchor. but i do it and i'm no superman. all of this hauling is aided by a chain hook on deck so i can stop any time i want to by putting the chain in the hook until i'm ready to haul some more.

one more thing. if you really want to become a liveaboard/cruiser and depend on your boat being where you left it, get chain. line is for daysailors who return to a slip or a trailer every evening. every boat in my anchorage that has drifted free has line and an undersized danforth anchor they bought at walmart. every boat on chain is right where they left it.