Photos of Anchors Setting

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Thanks SWL. I shall try 1.5 kg. Do you use a soft belt, or just lead dive weights? I wish I could get a descent pair of fins but with my kiddy size feet, I only have itsy-bitsy fins which just don't get the job done.

I use a standard dive belt with one weight threaded on. I think a soft one would be more pleasant though.

Better fins would make the biggest difference. If you get keen taking photos then find some free diving fins. They are much longer than ordinary ones. Mine have soft back and are very comfortable to use barefooted.

SWL

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi Prairie Chicken
We both use 1.2 kg. We have free diving fins though, which are very powerful. No wet suits are used, so there is no additional buoyancy and that helps too. It doesn't take much effort to get down.

With the fins I can take photos to about 4m without any weights, but a kilo on a belt just makes it easier. The problem is that without weights more energy is expended getting down, so I have less air by the time I get to the anchor and fewer photos can be taken.

With 1kg I start to lose positive buoyancy at around 10m, so due to safety issues I don't carry more.

With no fins and no weight I think about a metre is my limit when duck diving .

SWL

I'm finding that 5m is about my limit at the moment. Usually my ears start distracting me with the need to equalise them. When I used to go scuba diving, the first dive was always a hassle as I would get stuck at 10m trying to equalise and I'd use up lots of air. Eventually I will get down. After that first dive, for the rest of the week I can go straight down to 30m or 40m without a problem.

Have not braved my scuba gear yet. It has occurred to I will need to use a lot of fresh water to get rid of the salt after diving which does not go well with water conservation to avoid docking. I should have fitted a WM

[noelex 77]

I did not do a good job with this drop.

The anchorage is quite difficult with rock and weed and not much swinging room, but that keeps others away, so it is paradise in our eyes .

We were aiming for a sand patch perhaps 3x5m, plenty large enough to hit and with the quick setting Mantus plenty large enough to set in.

After all my suggestions about practising dropping in small areas, I only hit the very edge of the sand

The Mantus has fortunately set very rapidly, in less than a shank length. It has buried well, although the junction of the sand and weed is not a good place to drop. The weed is elevated above the sand and to complicate matters the bottom has a large slope which makes the 3:1 scope effectively less. The Mantus has coped with these difficulties well, but the set is not as good as normal, especially when looked at from near the bottom.

Depth was 10m:

[noelex 77]

Next is a CQR. It was dropped in a small sand patch not unlike the patch where we dropped the Mantus. They actually did a better job and dropped it on the upwind side, but the CQR does not have much hope of setting in a small space like this.

It has just ground to a halt because of the resistance offered by the weed and is not set:

[Polux]

Here you have a movie with the Britany setting They give also holding power:

Britany

Here one with the Kobra 2 with holding power:

Kobra 2

And here you have the way the test was performed on 11 anchors. The tests where performed in different types of bottoms and till what you would expect in traction on a F12:

Crocher ou décrocher : 11 ancres au banc d’essai

and here you have the movies and holding power of several other anchors (Spade A80, Spade S8, Mason Supreme, Brake 16, Bugel, CQR, Delta Lewmar, Fortress ss 10.6, XYZ) but unfortunately you have to pay to see these movies:

Toute la vérité sur les ancres

[noelex 77]

Thanks for the links. I had not seen the videos.
The anchor test that generated the videos is an old one from 2009. This is a link to the results:

http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...st%20Nov09.pdf

[noelex 77]

This was a claw (Bruce copy).

It was dropped in shallow water in what looks like nice sand, but the anchor is doing what the claw/Bruce sometimes does, just lying on its side. The Bruce shank is quite heavy and it takes a lot to rotate this level.

The good news is the anchor has some grip even laying on its side like this. The Bruce nearly always achieves some sort of hold so it is reliable in light to moderate winds.




If you look carefully in the distance, you can see the long length of chain snaking along the seabed off to the top right hand side of the photo. Contrast this with the next photo taken just a few minutes later:




Here I managed to catch a gust and you can see it has wiped out most of the chain catenary, despite only a moderate force on the anchor. It really does not take much force to lift the chain off the bottom. In this light, but gusty wind it was only happening intermittently, but in stronger conditions it is like this all the time:




I could not resist taking this photo. From this angle the fluke reminded me of a shark fin. Sometimes anchors can be scary, although that is usually at 2am :

[Polux]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Thanks for the links. I had not seen the videos.
The anchor test that generated the videos is an old one from 2009. This is a link to the results:

http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Ancho...st%20Nov09.pdf

Yes that is the same test that was made by the French magazine Voile and Voilers and bought and published by some other European magazines (including YachtingMonthly).

As good as that one you have the one of the other big French magazine, Voile magazine (2012) that (if I remember well) was also bought and published by other European sail magazines. They tested 14 anchors using the same methodology, filming while they were pulling even if they never made the movies available, only photos.

You can download the test (with photos) on this link:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...98717601,d.d24

or here if the link is too long:

Test et comparatif ancre Voile magazine Mai 2012 - Sea Tech and Fun - Spade - Catalogue PDF | Documentation | Brochure de bateaux

By the way your photos look awesome

[four winds]

Sand shark!!!!

Truly beautiful photography.

And a great thread too. Thanks for all your effort.

[laika]

Thanks for the contributions all, photos / sans photos. I've learned a ton and consider this thread something of a gold standard. To counterpoise noelex/mermaid, I'll try to contribute some u/w pics of the mantus performing poorly soon in the bahamas

BTW, would love to see some more sarca pics.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I'm finding that 5m is about my limit at the moment. Usually my ears start distracting me with the need to equalize them. When I used to go scuba diving, the first dive was always a hassle as I would get stuck at 10m trying to equalise and I'd use up lots of air. Eventually I will get down. After that first dive, for the rest of the week I can go straight down to 30m or 40m without a problem.

Have not braved my scuba gear yet. It has occurred to I will need to use a lot of fresh water to get rid of the salt after diving which does not go well with water conservation to avoid docking. I should have fitted a WM

We have scuba, hookah and free dive equipment onboard, I was first encouraged to do the free dive adventures after viewing the mermaid's photos.

It just takes practice and setting goals. Last season and early this season I thought my limit was 5-6 meters, couldn't seem to get the confidence to go deeper. Then three weeks ago, my wife dropped one of our new flyscreens out the window into 10 meters. It was getting dark and I didn't want to loose the thing, so I decided to give it a try without scuba. Found it on the first dive, and fetched it on the first attempt... It was easy. Brimming with confidence a few days later off Elba, I decided to try and go down 12 meters to check the anchor. On the way down, I noticed the water got very cold and about 2-3 meters off the anchor my head felt some pressure so I surfaced. Turns out I forgot to figure in the 2.5 meters of keel depth into the equation. So... There I was going from a 5 meter limit right down to 13 meters... Just like that.

The limits are mostly in your head and the ability to clear your ears fast enough. Turns out, that after I quickly pass 5 meters using a 2 kilo weight belt, the next 5-7 meters go very quickly due to the loss of buoyancy as my lungs compress. It's also important to go down vertical and get some momentum working for you from the start.

Then my mind switches gears... Do I have enough time to get to the surface? It's fun, but I usually don't dare go down deeper than 8 meters without my wife around. Not that she would be any help since she won't even put her face in the water.

I love scuba, but free diving can be fascinating, especially when you look up at the surface from 40 ft down.... and no scuba or regulator... Quiet and strange with the fish swimming by.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The limits are mostly in your head and the ability to clear your ears fast enough.

This is true. I regularly spearfish at 15-18 meters and the only real challenge is learning to deal with your brain (assuming you are already in average shape and have had a day or two to stretch your lungs underwater).

You become two separate entities - your reptilian brain screaming that it wants air NOW the moment your head goes under, and your rational brain that needs to learn how to take control, relax, and quiet the reptilian brain.

Generally, you will go through two strong "panic" periods in a dive where your reptilian brain asserts itself strongly. These are easily and safely overcome by learned relaxation. Seeing a nice grouper go by also helps (even Mr. reptile brain can't resist that). Don't let it go to a third one, though.

As you learn to clear your ears fast enough, free-diving fins are fantastic at moving you down with minimal effort and getting you up fast enough to push your down time limits. I like to weight myself so that I am just neutral or slightly negatively buoyant at the surface. Being weighted like this means that you can conserve a lot of energy getting to the bottom and staying on the bottom.

Mark

[Kenomac]

Mark,

Presently, I can only hold my breath for around a minute. How do I overcome this mental obstacle? I'm in very good shape for a geezer, just three years ago I was competing in cycling at the international level.... Didn't even need a weight belt then. But you'd never know it by looking at me now... As I sit here eating corn chips.

Probably need to get back in shape.

[colemj]

It is the holding your breath (and making the most of your held air) that allows you to go deep - the actual depth is inconsequential. A minute is pretty good - most can't do close to that.

What I wrote about the reptilian brain screaming for air is what mostly limits down time. You think you only have a minute of air because your reptile brain has convinced your body to rebel against you - not because you are actually out of air.

I bet at the end of a minute, if you saw a beautiful naked woman swim by making becoming gestures at you (or a big fat grouper - they work the same), you would spend another 30 seconds staring at her and forgetting all about your near panic of running out of air.

So the tricks are to learn to take control from, and suppress your reptilian brain, get yourself very relaxed and almost zen-like in the water, take some deep breaths at the surface filling your lungs from bottom to top and use as little energy going down as possible (here is where the weights and long fins help). When down, stay relaxed and in control of the part of you that is screaming to get to the surface. When the panic almost strikes, make a couple of swallowing motions (this is key) and focus on moving to a different place or looking at a different thing while calmly moving your mind into an inside central focus point. It helps greatly if a beautiful naked woman swims by just then.

Mental relaxation and focus is the key. Some days you just won't have it and your down time will be horrible (usually something is broken on the boat and you can't get it out of your head), and some days you will think you have grown gills and a become a zen master.

Don't fight the bad days - they are what they are and nothing you can do will change that. Try to remember some detail about what made the good days and learn from it.

Mark

[Kenomac]

Ok.

The swallowing should be easy, since it's my preferred method of clearing my ears. So... When I'm at the bottom, the panic first hits me when I look up at the surface. Is this when I should swallow twice then start looking around? I'm pretty good at the relaxation stuff when scuba diving... Now I'm usually the last one down with the dive instructor... Learned it from a rather large elderly woman on a dive a couple of years ago.

I've read that facial tingling isn't a good sign, but I haven't gone there yet. One of my roadblocks is having known a top athlete during high school who blacked out underwater trying to see how far he could swim... The dumbass coach's idea. Mike was alright, there were plenty of Lifeguards on the swim team there to give him CPR and mouth to mouth. My worry... My wife isn't a lifeguard.