Photos of Anchors Setting

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by hoppy

Do you guys think that scope can affect the setting of an anchor? Whilst it's probably correct to say the more scope used will improve the holding of a set anchor, but I suspect that some anchor designs might be a bit scope sensitive when it comes to setting.

For example (this is just my guessing), if a Delta lands on it's side and you let out too much scope, when reversing back the weight of the chain might mean that the end of the shank drags along the bottom and then it stays on its side and it never sets. But if a shorter scope is used (say 3:1) then reversing might tension the chain enough to lift the shank helping it right itself and set. Once set the extra scope could be let out.

Anyone think this could be plausible?

Hoppy,
Our usual technique with the old Delta was drop and let out 2x water depth plus bow roller then gently reverse until the chain started to tension and let out chain to 3x water depth. Then a little reverse to get the boat going back again to tension the chain, testing for hold or drag with foot on the chain before slowly letting out more chain to 4x plus the bow roller height (tide not being an issue in the Adriatic). With 4x out we'd reverse again and watch the chain tension up with my foot on the chain to check for that judder of dragging while monitoring transits etc.

Finally swim over and check before shutting down the engine. I can't give you any figures but I would say the vast majority of times the tip of the Delta had dug into the substrate and one or both "ears" were starting to be covered by the heaping as the Delta ploughed into the bottom. I can't recall ever seeing ours on its side not doing anything but don't quote me on that

Your suggestion that plough types really need to be set with a shorter scope to get the chain tensioned so as to lift the shank, therefore putting the tip into a more optimal position makes sense. In fact this is still the basic technique I use with our monster Vulcan even if it does start to head south within a metre of the drop zone most times.

Keiron

[hoppy]

I think that the need for shorter or longer setting scope will be very dependant on each anchors design and the behaviour that the design induces.

With my delta and before this thread I was generally anchoring with a 3:1 or 4:1 scope and it would set. I would only use longer if it was windy. I do suspect that the Delta does need the shorter setting scope but I also think that applies if the anchor landed on its side.

What we need is to get out and try it ideally with someone in the water observing or even better videoing the setting






Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Spade Anchor]

Each anchor has its own preference for recommended Scope. The rule of thumb for old generation anchors (plows)is at a 3:1 scope you are getting approximately 50% of that anchors holding power. At 5:1 = 70% & 7:1 is close to 100% of that anchors holding power.
A well designed "new" generation anchor with a concave holding area does not rely on chain weight for holding power. So with this type of anchor you can use a shorter scope such as 3:1 and be close to the full holding power of that anchor.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Spade Anchor

Each anchor has its own preference for recommended Scope. The rule of thumb for old generation anchors (plows)is at a 3:1 scope you are getting approximately 50% of that anchors holding power. At 5:1 = 70% & 7:1 is close to 100% of that anchors holding power.
A well designed "new" generation anchor with a concave holding area does not rely on chain weight for holding power. So with this type of anchor you can use a shorter scope such as 3:1 and be close to the full holding power of that anchor.

Useful info but the OP's question related to initial setting not holding power.

[CarlF]

Spade Anchor,

I apologize if this is a little bit of thread drift from the OP's question but your post was news to me.

I've used a Spade as a 2nd anchor for years. Love it. But I didn't know it could be used at a 3:1 scope. If the old anchors were 50% holding at 3:1 what do you estimate as your percentage at 3:1 (I understand these are just rough estimates since there are a lot of factors. I experienced plenty of cases where my old CQR wouldn't have held with 20:1 scope).

Also, will my Spade reset after a wind change about as well at 3:1 as 5:1?

I looked at some of the other new-gen anchor sites and most recommend 7:1. Is this just their lawyers? Or is this just another piece of "old salt" wisdom from the CQR that we all used to use?

[Robin3]

I looked at some of the other new-gen anchor sites and most recommend 7:1. Is this just their lawyers? Or is this just another piece of "old salt" wisdom from the CQR that we all used to use?

With so many folk this side of the (northern hemisphere) pond using mostly warp rodes 7:1 might well be needed. My previous comments above however related to an all chain rode, all that I would ever consider using these days, except for perhaps anchoring in exceptionally deep waters ( I wish where we go these days!). My background comes from the European ( non -MED) side of the pond where mainly rope rodes allow too much antisocial wandering around and the best anchorages can be crowded.

3:1 scope at predicted HW depth plus bow height above water served well in most 'normal' winds with Deltas once properly set in and more was only used if strong winds were expected, say steady30kts plus of course with more in gusts . We always used a nylon snubber line with a rubber dog bone compensator wound into it too to prevent undue snatch loads jerking out the set anchor.

[AlwaysFORSAIL]

My delta does well. Adequate rode is the answer for almost every situation with almost every anchor. Under sized anchors will be OK with rode of chain and rope to meet the conditions. I set my anchor at 2500 rpm (H380) in reverse until the boat doesn't move any more.

Anchoring preferences differ for each sailor. No sailor has experienced any problem with their anchor until you talk to them long enough with the aid of a little rum.

[pmclachlan]

Here is an excellent article and accompanying videos on various anchor types and performance from Paul and Sheryl Shard aboard Distant Shores.
The Best Sailboat Anchor | Sailing Blog - Technical Hints and Tips - Sailing Videos

[NornaBiron]

Originally Posted by nigel1

Was that Bradney chain in the UK (Dudley, West Midlands).
I bought some good chain from them about 3 years ago. Went to buy another 60m last year, and appears they have been taken over by William Hackett Chains Ltd.
I bought G4 chain from William Hackett, and the quality appears as good as the Bradney chain.

Sorry Nigel we have only just noticed your question, yes the chain was from Bradney Uk, but it was purchased in the early Nineties, its good to hear the new company are keeping up the standards

[kas_1611]

How Not to Drop Your Anchor

I know it's not quite the same as the way we do it but thought this was worthy of sharing. Definitely the "lob it over the side and let everything out" technique

Cheers

Keiron

[sanibel sailor]

Not quite a mermaid, but he approves.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

How Not to Drop Your Anchor

I know it's not quite the same as the way we do it but thought this was worthy of sharing. Definitely the "lob it over the side and let everything out" technique

Cheers

Keiron

That is scary stuff!

Wonder if the bitter end was attached to the ship?

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by Sos

That is scary stuff!

Wonder if the bitter end was attached to the ship?

Not clear but didn't look like it as you can just about see the last link fly through the mechanism

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Spade Anchor,

I apologize if this is a little bit of thread drift from the OP's question but your post was news to me.

I've used a Spade as a 2nd anchor for years. Love it. But I didn't know it could be used at a 3:1 scope. If the old anchors were 50% holding at 3:1 what do you estimate as your percentage at 3:1 (I understand these are just rough estimates since there are a lot of factors. I experienced plenty of cases where my old CQR wouldn't have held with 20:1 scope).

Also, will my Spade reset after a wind change about as well at 3:1 as 5:1?

I looked at some of the other new-gen anchor sites and most recommend 7:1. Is this just their lawyers? Or is this just another piece of "old salt" wisdom from the CQR that we all used to use?

cool vids earlier in post showing the spade at work in a variety of situations I just bought one as did the tester

[GRIT]

Admiral Slater, out of curiosity since I'll be getting a Spade soon too, and our boats are of similar size, which weight Spade did you get? And do you have comments regards it's use?

Cheers.
Paul.