Photos of Anchors Setting

[robert sailor]

Some of the scopes sailors are using are really getting out there, in my view 4-1 is fine in normal conditions and storm is 7 or 8-1. If you are real shallow you may have to add a bit but if you put out too much chain, as many do, you really screw it up for others in the anchorages.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

If you are real shallow you may have to add a bit but if you put out too much chain, as many do, you really screw it up for others in the anchorages.

This one is for you Robert .

This was a Danforth (or more correctly called a Danforth copy).

It was in 6m with a ton of scope, about 10:1. The boat did not even stay the night . My guess is they had dragged with this anchor on multiple occasions .

As you can see, the anchor is doing a very poor job. Its list is so high it is almost vertical. The boat deployed the anchor well and put on a nice amount of setting force. The only fault was an inordinately long scope for the conditions, but this should have helped rather than hindered the set.

The Danforth had been given every opportunity to set well and should have done much better than this.

I have seen fluke anchors (like Danforth, Fortress etc) adopt this sort of very high list at times. Unfortunately, they sometimes appear to be quite stable in this position. I have witnessed them dragging a long way without showing any signs of levelling out. It is particularly a problem when this style of anchor is required to rotate to a new wind direction.

In some rotations (not all) this style of anchor can develop a very high list even if it sets well initially. It will often reset if this occurs, but sometimes it will drag in this position, as you can see in the photos, without showing any inclination to dig in properly.


I have some more images that I will sort out shortly.

[hoppy]

My Rocna Vulcan in Lakka from yesterday. In 3.5m with 5:1 in the water. Backed down at 2500rpm to dig it in. It set itself in a a little over it's own length.



Because the wave motion did not agree with the missus, today we moved closer to the town and anchored in the slightly deeper area with a muddy bottom. I had 2 failed attempts to anchor as it would not hold in the mud at 2500rpm. On the 3rd attempt I decided that the forecast was good, so I backed down with only 2000rpm and settled for that. Did not dive, so no photos of this set.

[Hydra]

I have seen a few anchors with one fluke bent out of plane. Maybe this could cause an anchor to roll on its side.

Alain

[Jim Cate]

As you can see, the anchor is doing a very poor job. Its list is so high it is almost vertical. The boat deployed the anchor well and put on a nice amount of setting force. The only fault was an inordinately long scope for the conditions, but this should have helped rather than hindered the set.

Nolex, those photos are astonishing!! How in the world could an anchor achieve that attitude? It's hard for me to visualize the process. I wonder whether there was a defect in the specific anchor, or perhaps an anchor gnome was down there with a mallet and drove the stock in vertically.

Seriously, could it have been that it fell in that attitude, speared the stock into the bottom, and then the friction from the very long chain lying in the sand meant that no force was ever applied to the anchor to flop in down into "digging in" position?

Really weird!

Jim

[Panope]

Jim, I tested a Danforth copy and it did the same thing as the anchor that Noelex photographed.

The only explanation for this behavior is that the anchor is a P.O.S.

Steve

This test video occurred early in my testing and will bore you to tears as it is unedited. Skip to the 0:45 mark and the 3:45 mark to view the action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJJtdlCbUIA

[JPA Cate]

Panope, that was very interesting. As you may recall, we have a genuine Danforth #20 lb HT. We have never tried to set it going 2 knots, and I think perhaps the speed was too much for the copy, and it just skittered along the bottom. We have never had a problem with our Danforth, even when we lived in SF, but we always let the wind or current set it. I would imagine that perhaps people who want to use Danforth type anchors would be well advised to try slow setting.

Our Danforth is not our main anchor, but it is our pull in one direction anchor, and is sometimes used when we want to have two anchors out. In that situation, we motor the boat to where we want to place the Danforth, and then chuck it over, and fall back to lying on the Manson Supreme. Then we tack up on the nylon rode (the Danforth only has 20 ft. of 3/8" chain to help it set. It has NEVER done what the anchor in your video did.

No offense intended, but I think that anchor may not be a POS, but needs to be set with a different methodology.

I was looking at Noelex's picture of the plow, with one ear buried. We used to have a CQR copy, and it buried like that most of the way across the Pacific. It also was an anchor than one needed to "sneak up" on, needed speed less than a knot, or it'd plow a furrow as long as you wanted. POS? perhaps, but it held firm in 55 kn once set, even with its silly little ear up in the air.

I guess what I'm getting at is if one is low budget and chooses not to afford the latest and greatest new generation anchor, some of the old generation anchors can be used safely for years, if you're willing to teach yourself how to use them to their best advantage. And if you're really low budget, I've heard someone has a Danforth copy in his shed, he might give you a really good deal on!

Ann

[Panope]

Hi Ann,

No doubt my Danforth Copy (25lb) can be nursed into the sea-bed with proper technique. In fact, my father used this anchor successfully for about a month in Baja after he lost is CQR (to chafe, was holding fine in 60kts.).

However, I stand by my review of this particular anchor as it really is a poor copy. The shank is very loose and can deflect from side to side many degrees, it has very blunt tips, the scantlings are quite light, and the fluke will pivot more in one direction than the other.

As a contrast, below is my test of a Genuine Danforth (20lb.) using my standard "for test purposes only" initial setting technique. The initial set was instantaneous and the anchor even passed my ridiculous, 180 degree torture test acceptably.

Genuine Danforth is a good anchor. The copy above, not so much.

Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQAbylS1fGQ

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Hydra

I have seen a few anchors with one fluke bent out of plane. Maybe this could cause an anchor to roll on its side.

Alain

Yes, this is a good thought Alain. I do try and inspect the anchors closely even though they are underwater.

If anyone notices any defects in the anchors when look at the photos please point them out in the thread. The only caution is that most of the underwater photos are taken with a wide angle lens and there is a bit of distortion towards the edges.

I don't think this anchor was bent.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Nolex, those photos are astonishing!! How in the world could an anchor achieve that attitude?

It is a very unusual attititude that seems to defy gravity.

The biggest problem is when this style of anchor is trying to rotate to a new wind direction. On some occasions the rotation can induce a high list and once in this orientation, the anchor can break out and drag for long distances.

It would be nice to find out what sort of substrate makes the anchor more prone to doing this. Or even better, perhaps some enterprising individual could produce a new design with slightly different geometry so that the anchor was never stable in this attitude. A longer stock would seems to be a simple modification, but this if anything seems to make the problem worse.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Panope

As a contrast, below is my test of a Genuine Danforth (20lb.) using my standard "for test purposes only" initial setting technique.

That is interesting Steve. I have seen a few genuine Danforth anchors, but not many, as they are not common here or in Australia.

I have seen many other good quality and well made fluke anchors such as Fortress and Guardian. Unfortunately, under the wrong circumstances I have seen them also adopt this orientation. They don't do it very often, which is fortunate because the amount of grip is low, but it does happen.

This is a small Guardian that was dropped by a private yacht last year:

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Nolex, those photos are astonishing!! How in the world could an anchor achieve that attitude? It's hard for me to visualize the process. I wonder whether there was a defect in the specific anchor, or perhaps an anchor gnome was down there with a mallet and drove the stock in vertically.

Seriously, could it have been that it fell in that attitude, speared the stock into the bottom, and then the friction from the very long chain lying in the sand meant that no force was ever applied to the anchor to flop in down into "digging in" position?

Really weird!

Jim

LOL Jim
Anchor Gnomes, are they a distant cousin to the Trail Gremlins who come along in the middle of the night and dig up the perfect piece of mountain biking trail you told your mates about in the pub so they don't believe you the following day?
Keiron

[Don C L]

As a die-hard 2 Danforth user, I have not had that happen either. It is a copy and I think it is important to look at the length of the stock, but also the angle of the the flukes to the shank. As a rule I never trust copies. I can imagine how it could have been pulled 180 as it started to set and got stuck in that angle. Danforths have their Achilles' heel too of course. I don't try to set it going too fast. It may skip. When I drop it I watch it "fly" down and keep the rode paying out just to be sure it doesn't fall as a lump. If the Danforth falls on good holding ground, I have rarely had problems with it setting well. The only issues I have had locally is lumps of kelp stuck in the flukes.

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by jmtindle3

In defense of the Delta ,that I thing is getting a bum rap I add this thought. In my experience in the Caribbean and the Bahamas most charter companies use Delta anchors as the primary and Brittney anchors as backup. I do not believe this is because of cost as I am sure the last thing they want is to lose or badly damage a charter boat. I know there are better anchors out there but from my experience Deltas are one of the best. When I bought my first charter boat in 2002 they supplied their boats with Brittney anchors. When I brought the boat back to the states I stopped in the Bahamas and dropped my Brittney. I had a reef behind me and in the night a wind storm developed I spent a sleepless night wildly swinging on This strange to me Brittney. The next morning we were right where we had anchored. I think better of the cheap anchors after that. One more think, I have never used an over sized Delta on any of my boats. What ever was on the size chart is what I used.

The Delta is probably the most-used anchor in the world - it's cheap (that's why it's OE for most boatbuilders) it self-stows and self launches (making it preferable to the CQR) and usually sets pretty well.
I have one for my stern kedge for Mediterranean bows-to mooring.
Jim Baersalman swears by the Brittany, 6:1 scope and hard digging in,reverse. I've lain through a meltemi to a 6kg Danforth on chain and textile. IMHO the bottom determines the anchor and the technique of the anchorer the quality of the set.
The only two times the Mantus has dragged is when it's come up with a large piece of seagrass rhizome.

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

This one is for you Robert .

This was a Danforth (or more correctly called a Danforth copy).

It was in 6m with a ton of scope, about 10:1. The boat did not even stay the night . My guess is they had dragged with this anchor on multiple occasions .

As you can see, the anchor is doing a very poor job. Its list is so high it is almost vertical. The boat deployed the anchor well and put on a nice amount of setting force. The only fault was an inordinately long scope for the conditions, but this should have helped rather than hindered the set.

The Danforth had been given every opportunity to set well and should have done much better than this.

I have seen fluke anchors (like Danforth, Fortress etc) adopt this sort of very high list at times. Unfortunately, they sometimes appear to be quite stable in this position. I have witnessed them dragging a long way without showing any signs of levelling out. It is particularly a problem when this style of anchor is required to rotate to a new wind direction.

In some rotations (not all) this style of anchor can develop a very high list even if it sets well initially. It will often reset if this occurs, but sometimes it will drag in this position, as you can see in the photos, without showing any inclination to dig in properly.


I have some more images that I will sort out shortly.

I strongly suspect, though can't see in the photos, that the two flukes are not in the same plane.
Mine had the same problem after fouling the cable between St Agnes and Gugh. It worked OK again when the bent fluke was straightened.