Photos of Anchors Setting

[hoppy]

After the 3:1 failure I decided to give the Vulcan a chance redeem itself on video, so I let out more chain to make the scope 5:1 and then repeated the sam backing up procedure but this time holding 3000 for about 30 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwlXohJdSOo

It was a disappointing effort at 5:1. I've anchored with 5:1 and sand plenty of times using the same backing down procedure and each time it's set and held within one or two times it's length.





You can just make out the hull above the anchor



As you can see, the chain is straight, probably slightly lifting up the shank. Clearly it's a big tug of war between Jessabbe and the Vulcan. Who says folding props can't reverse




At this point I gave up and made some lunch

[kas_1611]

Thanks for sharing Hoppy, interesting to see the Vulcan struggling in what appears to be an ideal seabed. Could it be a clean sand doesn't have the shear strength to give a truly good set? Adding a little mud to the mix would increase the shear strength resulting in the super quick set and hold that thee and me are normally used to.

Hope lunch was worth all the effort

Keiron

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Thanks for sharing Hoppy, interesting to see the Vulcan struggling in what appears to be an ideal seabed. Could it be a clean sand doesn't have the shear strength to give a truly good set? Adding a little mud to the mix would increase the shear strength resulting in the super quick set and hold that thee and me are normally used to.

Hope lunch was worth all the effort

Keiron

The lunch wasn't worth it, but I'm glad I got the gopro out and annoyed that I never tried it years ago

Given the way the Vulcan has set and held on so many sandy bottoms (some times in 55 knots), I think you are right on the sand. It might be that different sand densities have different holding properties. Coarse sand probably should not hold as well as a fine sand (I think that's how it is)

[noelex 77]

Hoppy, fantastic photos and videos.

The Vulcan is a new anchor (I have never even seen one) and many are wondering about its performance. These contributions are exceptionally valuable. There has been almost nothing published on the performance of this anchor.

Thanks.

[kas_1611]

Oh God! another variable to add into the anchoring equations

Scope? - check
Anchor Size? - check
Snubber length? - check
Swing Distance? - check, double check
Bottom Geology? - oh bugger!!

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Oh God! another variable to add into the anchoring equations

Scope? - check
Anchor Size? - check
Snubber length? - check
Swing Distance? - check, double check
Bottom Geology? - oh bugger!!

Honestly, Bottom Geology is #1. Fortunately, it in many places it is generally OK and we forget about it. But it is #1.

Even sand is quite variable. It depends on the type of rock it was ground from and how it was formed. I've seen what we call sugar sand or pump sand from the Mississippi that you can't even make a pile from. It's like ball bearings. I'm guessing the pics are a light coral sand.

And these bottoms are cake compared to some of the pudding mud I lie with. The kind of stuff you can sink in up to your waist.

It is all about the bottom.

[kas_1611]

I should have qualified the list with "in no particular order"

Yes the type of sand will have a big impact as will the size and shape of the individual grains. equal sized, well rounded sand grains (those found in desert sand dunes for example) will have a totally different physical character to irregularly sized, angular grains. Pure quartz sand will behave differently from coral sand or feldspathic sands (arkosic). Honestly "sand" is a minefield geologically.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by hoppy

After the 3:1 failure I decided to give the Vulcan a chance redeem itself on video, so I let out more chain to make the scope 5:1 and then repeated the sam backing up procedure but this time holding 3000 for about 30 seconds.


It was a disappointing effort at 5:1. I've anchored with 5:1 and sand plenty of times using the same backing down procedure and each time it's set and held within one or two times it's length.

As you can see, the chain is straight, probably slightly lifting up the shank. Clearly it's a big tug of war between Jessabbe and the Vulcan. Who says folding props can't reverse

At this point I gave up and made some lunch

It doesn't seem to want to dive. Makes me suspect the geometry.

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

It doesn't seem to want to dive. Makes me suspect the geometry.

Think both Hoppy and I are both puzzled by this performance as neither of us have had problems with our Vulcan's setting and digging in deep. Both of us have photo'd our respective Vulcans with virtually nothing showing above the seabed.

Given the performances we have seen in varying substrates I'm inclined to think this poor showing is more the type of sand rather than any geometry issues. Either that or gremlins

Keiron

[hoppy]

I think my Vulcan is just camera shy. It can't do anything about me diving on it with my camera, but with the help of my boat it took the opportunity to get away from the GoPro and hide 😜

I regret not digging my hand into the sand but then again it was pretty easy to dig the baby Bruce in.

When playing on the beach it is always easier to dig in to coarse sand but on the other hand, fine sand holds together much better when making sand castles and digging deep holes.

I think it is just a coarse sand problem.

I wonder and kind of expect that a Fortress and similar design anchor might hold best off that beach.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[transmitterdan]

Hoppy,

Thanks for the great photos and videos.

For me the most fascinating thing about the first video is the two little flounders. They seem to hear the engine and somehow know that the anchor is about to serve up a meal. Sea life is amazing to watch when they don't know we are watching.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

It doesn't seem to want to dive. Makes me suspect the geometry.

In the first video you can see that it does try to dive very quickly. This matches with its performance in many sand anchorages I've dived on in the last 2 years.

I guess that with coarse sand, there is not enough "grip" so the force of the anchor being pulled is greater than the sands holding and therefore anchor can't dig deeper.

I would not be surprised if a Plow anchor would barely did in at all and drag much further withe the same backing power and time.




Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[hoppy]

If anyone is sailing on the south east coast of Rhodes and wants a nice spot to lunch, swim and test their anchor out, this is where I was (I hope the link works)

https://goo.gl/maps/sMATyP5uBPF2


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by hoppy

The lunch wasn't worth it, but I'm glad I got the gopro out and annoyed that I never tried it years ago

Given the way the Vulcan has set and held on so many sandy bottoms (some times in 55 knots), I think you are right on the sand. It might be that different sand densities have different holding properties. Coarse sand probably should not hold as well as a fine sand (I think that's how it is)

The sand looks light and fluffy, like flour, as the Vulcan plows its furrow. Seems the area and angle of the fluke is not enough to get it to dive.

[noelex 77]

This was before the significant wind.

The Mantus has done as perfect a set as you are likely to see. It has set in only a couple of feet, and buried the fluke and shank completely with almost no heaping up. We used a little more setting force than we often do: about 60 seconds in reverse instead of 30s. 5m@7:1.

The forecast wind of 37 knots should not trouble a good modern anchor like the Mantus, but wind can always be worse than predicted so it is nice to see such a perfect set. The anchor is oversized, so that is a lot fluke area buried a long way down.