Photos of Anchors Setting

[estarzinger]

#125 Mantus

Mantus immediately mailed them new flukes

Owner says 'dont know' . . . . but boat has big windless - have to guess tip was caught under something and owner stood on windless switch until anchor came up

Was not any big swell or such, and no huge bang from high speed back down.

[Panope]

Noelex, I think you correct, we should consider anchor strength in it's entirety. That said, anchor flukes with a large vertical dimension in profile (CQR, Delta, Spade, Excel, Ultra) will have so much resistance to the pictured type of damage, that the issue is nearly mute.

On the other hand, the more recent "flat plate" style flukes (Rocna, Manson Supreme, Mantus) will be much more susceptible to the pictured type of damage.

It is no secret that I have made much ado about shank strength in my videos without even a mention of fluke strength. I'll admit that part of the reason is the engineering and math needed to make the predictions are far more complicated for a fluke than a shank.

In the future, I try and correct the omision. I should probably mention the vulnerability of the larger, more slender roll bars as well.

Steve

[estarzinger]

I am sort of astonished that damage could happen . . . I would have guessed windless clutch would have slipped long before. . . . But I guess if clutch was never used (power up & down) and pretty much frozen in place . . . . .

There was also a supreme picture floating around with this same sort of damage . . . So it is not entirely a one-off incident. . . . But that one we believed was caused by swell jerk loading.

We once got our rocna caught under a big sunken ship mooring (in south Georgia). We pulled on it real hard, and I was afraid something would bend, but all seemed ok in the end.

Always make me laugh a bit when the windless guys say not to use the windless to pull the boat up to the anchor . . . I get why they say that, but I just want to say "mate, have you never seen how these things are actually used in practice?"

[Cotemar]

It's amazing the crap your anchor can get stuck on.

We have pulled up a 500 Lbs mooring once and a few lobster pots.

Crazy things happen in harbors where 1000's of boats have anchored over the years.
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[redsky49]

Originally Posted by Panope

Noelex, I think you correct, we should consider anchor strength in it's entirety. ...

In the future, I [will try to] correct the omision(sic). I should probably mention the vulnerability of the larger, more slender roll bars as well.

Steve

I agree that anchors should be examined in their entirety, as the weak point will likely vary according to their design and construction.

I have never seen a bent roll bar, personally or in a photograph. On the other hand, given the abuse that anchors regularly encounter, I am surprised that there are not many more mangled hooks for our perusal. I have personally snagged rocks, submarine cables, coral, etc., and have bent a Danforth shaft (one of the many brands of which I have first-hand knowledge) in the process.

In fact, despite the internet hysteria, I think that name brand anchor damage is quite rare, and more frequently the result of operator error. This is not to dispute the seriousness of the issue, but to try to keep some perspective.

Sometimes we all need to just take a deep breath...

[estarzinger]

We picked up a very large Spanish Armada anchor off the bottom in Kinsale Ireland - made the windless groan - the Harbour master came out when we told him what we had, and it is apparently on museum display now.

We picked up a refergerator off the bottom in the canaries.

Have gotten a couple abandoned tires.

And snagged a couple huge ship's chains - had to dive to get the anchor off those. Thought I was going to have to dive that time in South Georgia, but really did not want to because the water was so cold and the visibility was zero.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by redsky49

I agree that anchors should be examined in their entirety, as the weak point will likely vary according to their design and construction.

I have never seen a bent roll bar, personally or in a photograph. On the other hand, given the abuse that anchors regularly encounter, I am surprised that there are not many more mangled hooks for our perusal. I have personally snagged rocks, submarine cables, coral, etc., and have bent a Danforth shaft (one of the many brands of which I have first-hand knowledge) in the process.

In fact, despite the internet hysteria, I think that name brand anchor damage is quite rare, and more frequently the result of operator error. This is not to dispute the seriousness of the issue, but to try to keep some perspective.

Sometimes we all need to just take a deep breath...

Redsky, I am with you on all points. And thanks for editing my grammar (not a strong suit of mine).

I have a photo of a bent Mantus Rollbar somewhere on my hard drive. I did not post it previously because I did not wish to add to the 'hysteria'.

Steve

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Panope

Noelex, I think you correct, we should consider anchor strength in it's entirety. That said, anchor flukes with a large vertical dimension in profile (CQR, Delta, Spade, Excel, Ultra) will have so much resistance to the pictured type of damage, that the issue is nearly mute.

On the other hand, the more recent "flat plate" style flukes (Rocna, Manson Supreme, Mantus) will be much more susceptible to the pictured type of damage.

It is no secret that I have made much ado about shank strength in my videos without even a mention of fluke strength. I'll admit that part of the reason is the engineering and math needed to make the predictions are far more complicated for a fluke than a shank.

In the future, I try and correct the omision. I should probably mention the vulnerability of the larger, more slender roll bars as well.

Steve

I guess thats where the anchors that are certified by the various marine standards authorities possibly have some advantages having to jump through some destructive testing hoops.

Thats not to say those that don't will not do the job in most senarios.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

There was also a supreme picture floating around with this same sort of damage . . . So it is not entirely a one-off incident. . . . But that one we believed was caused by swell jerk loading.

It may have been my photo of a bent Manson Supreme photographed around 2008. I never found the cause.




This bent Manson Supreme was seen in the the relatively early days of new generation anchors, but there have been very few subsequent cases of bent Manson Supreme anchors, so I don't think we need to be concerned that this damage is common. In fact, my own view is that the Manson Supreme is somewhat overbuilt (although this is for the shank rather than the fluke). Its performance is very good, but in my view it is at, or near the bottom, of the concave roll bar anchors. In my opinion if the weight was redistributed the performance could improve significantly. These modifications would make the anchor potentially slightly more at risk of bending, but a useful boost in performance could be achieved while keeping the risk of bending remote.

The Manson Supreme has achieved Lloyds Register of Shipping SHHP approval. In fact they claim, it was the first anchor to do so.

[estarzinger]

^^ I was thinking of a different supreme (was less rusty than that one), pacific, acquantance so we had some feedback on the cause. But it was also sometime ago. I agree this sort of thing is not very frequent. . . . . . Most anchors probably don't ever get loaded very hard.

As you probably know I have a somewhat different take on anchor performance than most. For us, it is all about setting in difficult bottoms - Holding in good bottoms way less important, because of "proper" size they all (the major decent designs) hold well enough. But I am an outlier on this, and testing is difficult in bad bottoms - pretty much no one wants to talk about them.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

^^ I was thinking of a different supreme (was less rusty than that one), pacific, acquantance so we had some feedback on the cause. But it was also sometime ago. I agree this sort of thing is not very frequent. . . . . . Most anchors probably don't ever get loaded very hard.

As you probably know I have a somewhat different take on anchor performance than most. For us, it is all about setting in difficult bottoms - Holding in good bottoms way less important, because of "proper" size they all (the major decent designs) hold well enough. But I am an outlier on this, and testing is difficult in bad bottoms - pretty much no one wants to talk about them.

Evans- You go oversized Bruce right? How do you do in soupy mud bottom?


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[redsky49]

"As you probably know I have a somewhat different take on anchor performance than most. For us, it is all about setting in difficult bottoms - Holding in good bottoms way less important, because of "proper" size they all (the major decent designs) hold well enough. But I am an outlier on this, and testing is difficult in bad bottoms - pretty much no one wants to talk about them."

BINGO!!!! We have a winner!

All my frustrating experiences anchoring have been in getting a proper set in challenging bottoms, not dragging once properly set. The videos that anchor manufacturers love to post - anchoring in soft sand or pulling the hook through beach sand at low tide - simply do not reflect the real world conditions that hard core cruisers face on a near-daily basis.

This is why real world pics of anchors in challenging situations are so informative. Thank you Noelex 77!

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Evans- You go oversized Bruce right? How do you do in soupy mud bottom?


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Lots of soup in ches bay and seemed to work just fine, only did not "set" once I can remember . . . . because I was anchoring inside a mooring field and had 2:1 scope out. I just let it sit/settle a while and it then seemed "ok" (lots of suction I guess) .... would have moved or picked one of the moorings in strong winds. Doubt our rocna would have done any/much better in that situation.

There is usually no visibility, but a video would be interesting . . . My guess is that the raw anchor weight sunk it thru the soup pretty quick, and there is harder mud down there somewhere.

We did carry a big fortress with mud palms, which would have been the proper solution (either by itself or in series) if we had had trouble. But we never needed it for this.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Lots of soup in ches bay and seemed to work just fine, only did not "set" once I can remember . . . . because I was anchoring inside a mooring field and had 2:1 scope out. I just let it sit/settle a while and it then seemed "ok" (lots of suction I guess) .... would have moved or picked one of the moorings in strong winds. Doubt our rocna would have done any/much better in that situation.

There is usually no visibility, but a video would be interesting . . . My guess is that the raw anchor weight sunk it thru the soup pretty quick, and there is harder mud down there somewhere.

We did carry a big fortress with mud palms, which would have been the proper solution (either by itself or in series) if we had had trouble. But we never needed it for this.

May be a scale issue. We had a 33 lb Bruce on our prior 33 foot boat. Always set great initially on Chesapeake but in squalls over 30 kts would slow drag. Bigger may truly be better


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[estarzinger]

^^ a lot to recommend a fortress in the ches bay.

Since this is a photo thread . . . should probably take our text blocks to another thread.