Photos of Anchors Setting

[noelex 77]

The final shot is me snorkelling back to the boat after the swim over to the Spade. You can see conditions are a bit rough, (25-30 knots) but stronger wind is the ideal time to view what anchors are doing. Surprisingly conditions under the water are still quite pleasant at 40 knots plus although the visibility is reduced. However, I am a bit reluctant to go too far, or to travel down wind in very strong conditions. The orange float is a dive marker, to avoid high speed boats and jet skiers hitting you on the head just as you surface:

[noelex 77]

Well, it certainly was a windy night. I am not sure exactly how windy as wind instruments are broken at the moment.
It was wildest about 3am, as it so often is. By dawn, it had settled down, but these photos taken as soon as it was light enough, still show lots of wind. The water was hissing.

In these conditions there isn't actually a lot of wave action as the tops of the waves are just blown away. You can see the white airborne spray covering a lot of the sea surface. Take into account that conditions always look much milder in photos and to give you some perspective that is a 62 foot cat.




This is how the Mantus looked in the morning:
You can see it has rotated completely level and buried significantly more. That roll bar is big and much of is buried.
You can see the total drag mark was a bit less than a metre and some of this would be the initial set.


The large cat with the Spade also stayed the night. Unfortunately, they left early in the morning before we got a chance to see their anchor. It really was not safe to go snorkelling a long way downwind in these conditions anyway. They did do something strange at the peak wind about 3am. I am not sure if they dragged and reanchored, or used their engines for a while to reduce the pressure, or just let out more snubber. The visibility was quite appalling at that stage.

Anyway it was a good test of the holding ability of the Mantus, which it passed with flying colours.

[monte]

Blowin its tits off. Good thing it's offshore! Where are you guys now?

[DeepFrz]

This is such a great thread I have requested the mods make it a sticky.

[kas_1611]

Noelex,

That's certainly some rough conditions and hats off for getting pictures to show just how rough. Where about's was that anchorage?

Excellent performance by your Mantus, if it dug in anymore you'd have to have a mining licence ;-) Also seemed the Spade had done a good job as well although suspect you might be correct that the Cat crew did use their engines to ease pressure on the anchor at the height of the winds.

Cheers

Keiron

[bazzer]

It sure has worked well. It would be nice to see how the others faired.
Where are you? Was the wind a Mistriel?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[monte]

The problem with cat bridles is you need to motor forward 10m to un clip the bridle, then let out chain, then refix the bridle. My guess would be they did that to let out a bit more chain

[Kenomac]

Sand, sand, sand... sand is easy.

I'd like to find out how an anchor is going to perform in a situation like I found myself in last evening. Nothing horrible predicted by the weather service, but I had two idiots plant their Bowman within 10 meters of me the day before on 2:1 scope. I told them I had 5:1 out (had been in same place for four days and was far on the outside of anchorage), they told me to take in 20 meters. Anyway, with higher winds predicted for last evening 25 knots with a 180 wind shift, I dove both anchors late in the afternoon and told them what I'd found and if they would let out 10 meters, I'd take in 10.... he agreed and thanked me. He apparently didn't do it, or let out very little just for show.

Well, 1am rolls around with 25 knots and 3-4 ft swells and there's the Brits Bowman with it's rode attacking my RIB off the stern. Tried for 30 minutes to wake the knuckleheads, but was probably ignored, so I had no choice but to re-anchor in those conditions or risk damage. I'd already brought in 10 more meters of chain and was now at just a little over 2:1 and was pretty sure I was beginning to slowly drag into them. Life vest on, powering forward on auto pilot while pulling up the anchor alone... then I watch as two Germans go drifting past sideways on a Bavaria, but to their credit... they avoided all boats and were able to handle their misfortune well and re-anchor. As soon as the anchor broke free, I steered hard to port in the dark towards the anchorage filled with boats, with 10 meters of chain still out. As soon as I was 40 meters to port, I let out a total of 40 meters, the anchor grabbed into the sand and the boat swung around, then attached the snubber. Big bruise on my ankle from plowing into a winch whilst doing the 16 meter dash (my windlass control is near the bow).

The idiots woke up at noon totally unaware of the trouble they'd caused. "No good deed... goes unpunished."

How about some anchor pics of weed bottoms? I was lucky last night, must have hit sand. But when my boat was drifting back and I was waiting for the set, I had my fingers crossed for sand, sand sand.... not weed.

Ken

[noelex 77]

The anchorage was on the south west side of Samos island in Greece.
The wind was the Meltemi.

The Meltemi tends to get funnelled by the island contours and can be much stronger in one bay, while the bay next door gets lighter wind. The pilot books and cruising guides give some indication of this.

I tend to prefer anchorages that are not in the cruising guides. This is especially true when bad weather is forecast. The biggest danger and worry to us is other boats dragging, and unmarked anchorages usually have no other boats. The drawback is that there are no charts so you have to visually navigate your way in looking for hazards. Usually there is some problem with the anchorage like poor holding, or poor shelter (otherwise they become standard anchorages). Finally it is difficult to gauge if the chosen bay will funnel the wind, or not.

I looked back at some of the photos I took when the cat first arrived and it looks like they moved to the east which could have only happened if they re-anchored. So I think it very likely they did drag. Their Spade anchor was very large, but not in relation to a 62 foot cat with a lot of windage. Despite what the manufacturers say the reliability of a recommended sized anchor (even an excellent anchor), is poor in this sort of wind. I am also not sure if it was steel or aluminium version of the Spade. The first time I saw it was in the second series of photos and at this stage it was a bit too buried to tell. However, the welds visible on the back of the fluke in one of the earlier photos do look like the steel version which is the better anchor.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

How about some anchor pics of weed bottoms? I was lucky last night, must have hit sand. But when my boat was drifting back and I was waiting for the set, I had my fingers crossed for sand, sand sand.... not weed.

Ken

Yes I will try to get some weed results soon.

A lot of the anchorages around here are reasonably weedy. It is usually clear enough to be able to see the bottom and therefore drop in sand patch, but some of the anchorages are all weed. Sometimes I come into an anchorage at night, or in rough weather and then as you say you just have to just drop and hope.

I suspect soon the Mantus will end up in a weedy substrate. If not, I will have to deliberately drop in one of the weed patches rather than sand.

Weed is a substrate that visual inspection of the anchor shows a lot, but you have to get down, part the weed and see (or feel) how much of the fluke is buried into the substrate.

Often just the weed itself provides moderate grip and it is not unusual for anchors to hold in reasonable winds (say up to 30 knots) without digging into the underlying substrate. Owners think there anchor is doing a good job in weed (because it is reliable in moderate winds), but the anchor needs to able to penetrate the weed and get a grip into the underlying substrate to able to hold in high winds.

Diving and observing gives a much better idea which anchors do this well, but it is hard to eliminate the variability of the many different types of weed and the underlying substrate is often difficult to judge (it is sometimes rock).

It is also going to be a challenge to photograph as the weed often obscures the anchor until you dig down, which needs both hands, but I hope to try soon.

[Kenomac]

I'm going to try and take some pictures of our Ultra 45kg anchor. 'Was very surprised today to find out that I actually didn't hit sand the other night, but instead found the anchor had immediately dug in 3/4 of the way into a hard clay/rocky gravel substrate. No long skid mark in the sand leading up to it... just straight down into it.

[noelex 77]

That would be great Ken. I hope more people contribute photos to the thread. I realise In many locations murky water makes anchors much more difficult to photograph than where I am, but photos don't have to be technically good to show enough detail to analyse what is going on.

They also don't have to be recent photos. There is nothing to stop us learning something from images taken some time ago.

So let's see those photos.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Yes I will try to get some weed results soon.

A lot of the anchorages around here are reasonably weedy. It is usually clear enough to be able to see the bottom and therefore drop in sand patch, but some of the anchorages are all weed. Sometimes I come into an anchorage at night, or in rough weather and then as you say you just have to just drop and hope.

I suspect soon the Mantus will end up in a weedy substrate. If not, I will have to deliberately drop in one of the weed patches rather than sand.

Weed is a substrate that visual inspection of the anchor shows a lot, but you have to get down, part the weed and see (or feel) how much of the fluke is buried into the substrate.

Often just the weed itself provides moderate grip and it is not unusual for anchors to hold in reasonable winds (say up to 30 knots) without digging into the underlying substrate. Owners think there anchor is doing a good job in weed (because it is reliable in moderate winds), but the anchor needs to able to penetrate the weed and get a grip into the underlying substrate to able to hold in high winds.

Diving and observing gives a much better idea which anchors do this well, but it is hard to eliminate the variability of the many different types of weed and the underlying substrate is often difficult to judge (it is sometimes rock).

It is also going to be a challenge to photograph as the weed often obscures the anchor until you dig down, which needs both hands, but I hope to try soon.

Great idea that you take some photos in med weed.

My experience is that it makes no difference and sets fine. For me, retrieving the anchor after a weed set is even harder as it does not want to break out and has the added disadvantage that it comes up with a huge portion of the seabed.
That's the main reason that given a choice, I would anchor in sand.

The good thing about your thread as it shows that you really need to pull the anchor in.
If your anchor sets significantly more during a storm, then you didn't set it hard enough when you arrived. Sailors need to be more aggressive with their anchoring technique.

[Kenomac]

Ok, here's my first attempt at free diving with my Gopro to photograph our Ultra 45kg anchor following the re-anchor the other night. I know... not as good as the mermaid. But I'm working on it. 'Was able to get down 20ft without busting an eardrum. Not sure how to post a larger image, but if you click on it, it looks a little more impressive.

Expecting a 90 degree wind shift overnight, will post another pic tomorrow.

Ken

[noelex 77]

Thanks for the photo Ken.
The Ultra looks like it has set quickly. That sort of gravelly substrate is difficult one to evaluate anchors in. There are often rocks of various sizes mixed in, and if the fluke hits a medium sized, or larger rock it stops the anchor digging down.

I also wonder if it is just some weed around the fluke, or is that a short bit of weed covered old rope as well?