Photos of Anchors Setting

[noelex 77]

This was the Ultra that came in yesterday.
It was dropped terribly with the boat still moving forward at considerable speed. When all the chain was laid out upwind they stopped and allowed the 20 knot wind (it later picked up to 25) to push them backwards over the top of the anchor, with an abrupt high force at the end of the travel. Commendably, the anchor seemed to set.

This was the result:

The drag mark is long at about 6m, but with the weird setting technique this means little. The fluke is completely buried and while most of the shank is exposed it is a great result, particularly at the short scope. There was some heaping up, but given the short scope and poor technique this is understandable.

The chain was lifting all the way to the shank in the gusts (as you would expect @3.5:1 in 25 knots). This was kicking up lots of sand, resulting in the blurry pictures. The sand was from the chain, not the anchor moving (unlike the last Delta in the same wind conditions).

The scope was only about 3.5:1. I really wanted to get the scope as accurate as possible. There has been some doubt in my mind about the Ultra's performance at short scopes. It would be nice to see the Ultra doing well at 3:1, or less. Unfortunately, there are limitations in estimating distances and depths, 3.5:1 was my best estimate, but it would have been nice to know the scope accurately.

The fluke is completely buried. The chain on the left is kicking up a lot of sand as it lifts all the way to the anchor:




This shows the degree of heaping up a bit better. The fluke is under the mound and the shank mostly out of sight behind it. The rope was attached to the Ultra chain guard:



Incidentally, there seems to have been an explosion lately of Ultra anchors. They are mostly on Turkish boats as you would expect.

One interesting aspect is they are appearing on less expensive boats. This was on an older, small, and slightly tired Bavaria. It is surprising they have fitted such an expensive anchor. I wonder if the local market is getting a heavy discount?

[avb3]

Just wondering, your mermaid didn't learn her skills here, did she?

http://news.distractify.com/fun/biza...d-academy/?v=1

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

I would be interested to know what the length and displacement of your yacht is and most importantly if it is considered to be oversized by Mantus according to their sizing chart.

Thanks for the interest. My boat is 47 feet with a displacment of 14.5T although with all the junk essential equipment on board it is a fair bit heavier.

My philosophy with anchors is firmly in the BIB camp. The Mantus is almost exactly the same size as my Rocna, which I have used for the last 5 years virtually full time anchoring, so I am used to setting performance of this sized anchor. It is +1, or +2 over the Mantus table depending on if you use the "storm" or "working" recommendation. To compensate in terms of weight, my chain is 1/2 to one size smaller than most boats my size would use (it is 10mm G7).

The anchor size is certainly a help with holding ability. It is also some help coping with weed, as here a bigger anchor does better. The slightly smaller chain than average hurts the short scope setting ability slightly, although the Mantus is performing amazingly well at a short scope despite the handicap.

However, a larger anchor will make the photos worse and photos are what this thread is all about. It will dive less deeply for the same force. If the Mantus fluke is only half buried for example, this would still have more fluke area under the substrate than a smaller anchor, particularly if the design had a small fluke area relative to the weight.

With the fluke completely covered the smaller anchor would look better in the photos than a larger anchor where the fluke was only half buried. In reality the holding of the two anchors may be comparable at that point.

I think people would be very impressed if they could see my Mantus in the flesh. Seeing the big fluke area completely buried is a very confidence building sight. The large and long blade also mean the toe is long way down into the firmer substrate by the time the fluke is covered.

In terms of setting force this is a variable. If no force is put on the anchor it will just sit on the bottom without even digging in the toe. I watch most of the drops and try to comment on the technique so you have some idea. You need to use some judgment when looking at the photos and take this variable into account.

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by bazzer

Nice to see you take a interest on this thread. I'm not CSI but the CQR you show looks like it was past it's useful life. Was it a real CQR or a copy? What make of anchor swivel was that and why did it break? Or rather bend? Wrong size chain or wrong pin?
Anything can break if too much force is applied to it above what is designed to do. Once again "Use the right tool for the Job".
Yes, bad welds will break, but a good one joins too pieces of metal as if they were one.

Keep it coming guys!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I'd tend to agree, certainly about the farther one which has a totally different shape plough to my current CQR. I too had a Sowester copy CQR and it was a truly dreadful anchor.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by avb3

Just wondering, your mermaid didn't learn her skills here, did she?

There's A School For People Who Want To Be Mermaids, And It's 100% Awesome!

Wonderful.

[chasfgr]

Excellent fact-based stuff, which leads me, increasingly to the belief that the anchorer is the more important variable than the anchor.

Noelex, have you any photos yet of anchors set entirely under sail?

Furthermore do any readers have a technique they use for anchoring under sail?

[robert sailor]

The old school would have you sailing up to the point of drop and then back winding your main to push you back and set the anchor. If the breeze is strong enough that will work.
Years ago we lost a water pump on the engine and had to wait for 3 months to get a new one (different days way back then) we cruised for 3 months without an engine so we developed quite a bit of experience anchoring under sail. The method we used most of the time was to simply sail around the anchorage until we found a spot we wanted to drop in and we would sail by it and drop the hook while under way and pay out the rode and when we had the proper amount out we would cleat it off and wait. When the anchor set it would spin us around head to wind and we would drop our sails.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by chasfgr

Noelex, have you any photos yet of anchors set entirely under sail?

No sorry.
We had engine failure in Croatia and spent a month anchoring under sail. The anchoring bit is quite easy. However, we had a plow anchor that was very unreliable. The thought of recovering from dragging if the wind swung around and we had a lee shore, was the stuff of nightmares. A month was enough to convince me that the sailors that cruise without an engine are very skilled or very brave.

Rather than just practicing anchoring under sail try practicing leaving under sail when it is strong wind and pretending you have a lee shore. So you need a sail combination that will give progress upwind. (Have the engine running, but not in gear). At least think about the problem.

In terms of setting the anchor it should be remembered that there is no difference between wind and engine force. It is possible to feather the clutch on most windlasses and produce a reasonably progressive setting force if you have the wind pushing you back. If you get it wrong, most good new generation anchors will still set perfectly if you give them a sudden force, especially if the substrate is reasonable.

My engine setting technique of a slow build up to full reverse for thirty seconds is the equivalent to about 25-30 knots wind under bare poles. As you can see from the pictures the Mantus has been giving great sets with this force even though it is oversized and the substate is mostly harder sand.

15-20 of breeze will produce less setting force, but the set will still be acceptable.

So in winds of 15 knots or more you only have to sail directly into wind and as the boat stops drop the anchor by releasing the clutch. As the scope approaches the desired amount, gradually increase the force by tightening the clutch. If you have a good anchor in reasonable substrate you can increase the force by allowing the boat to build up some backwards speed and cleating the chain. The boats momentum will add to the wind force. Often a combination is best with a progressive initial set say at 3:1. This will get the anchor starting to dig in. Then let out more chain and allow the boat to build up some speed with a sudden cleat off at 5:1.(take the load off the windlass for this)

In lighter wind you can back the mainsail.

The easiest and best technique in light wind is as described by Robert Sailor. If you sail directly down wind drop the anchor when the scope is reached cleat off the chain or feather the clutch and the boat will swing around. However with all chain rode it is hard on the gel coat. Even using the snubber to take the load, the chain tends to rub on the bow area.

[robert sailor]

I hooked a long snubber with a rolling hitch and let it out when near the end of the chain I was putting out to save the topsides.. takes some gut and timing but like everything else you get pretty good at it when you are doing it a lot. Have to be careful where you put your hands.

[noelex 77]

There has been a lot of talk about setting force. Here are a couple of examples with very little setting force. The wind is very light and neither boat put any force on the anchor.

First is a stainless steel claw anchor. It is just sitting on the bottom with the chain holding the boat in the very light wind. Unfortunately, the photo tells us nothing about how the anchor would perform.

There is a rope that would normally be used to secure the anchor that is caught around the chain:

[noelex 77]

Next is another Ultra. This has only had a very slight force applied to it and therefore only the toe has dug in.

It is a very pretty anchor.

Hopefully there will be some more wind tomorrow and we can see something about the performance of these two anchors.






Phew caught with the backlog of anchor photos. Off to take some more

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by chasfgr

Furthermore do any readers have a technique they use for anchoring under sail?

+1 to noelex (and thanks for an excellant anchor thread) and Robert sailers meothods, which both work well, and to add another way, rather than backing the main, try unrolling and backing the headsail. This pushes the head down and really loads up the anchor. The best way is to back the main and the headsail in light winds (if you didnt do the running downwind drop), this gets you sailing backwards if done right. For the running drop, I used to let the Rhode pay out very fast, cleat it off then race aft and start turning upwind, this kept the Rope away from the hull, and made sure she didnt gybe as the anchor bit.

On my Engineless folkboat I often used to heave to over my chosen spot and leasurely drop the anchor as I drifted downwind. When I had enough scope out I would drop the main, and let the headsail set the anchor, and the if it was holding well she would spin head to wind and I would drop the Genoa at the right moment for it to land on the deck.

To sail off, I mostly just used the main, slightly eased, and the tiller free. She would wiggle up to the anchor herself as I took up the slack. It was exciting if I was near a lee shore or in gusty conditions but fun as a youngster on a small boat.

[noelex 77]

So far I have presented photos mainly illustrating anchors doing well or struggling.

These photos are an example of human failure. Of course stories of boats dragging because of poor technique are common, but I think underwater photos better illustrate the real risk.

The wind was very light at about 5 knots from the north when the boat (a private 42? foot Italian yacht) came into the anchorage last night. The forecast was for it to swing around to the south in the early hours of the morning, increasing to a maximum of 12 knots at 3am.

The boat anchored directly to the north of us with a Delta using a very short scope, later shown to be about 2.5:1, in 7m of water. The Delta does not set at 2.5:1. It even struggles at 3:1.

Their swing pattern was different to ours and with the wind switching 180 degrees I had to shorten scope to a bit less than 3:1 to avoid conflict. The Mantus handles short scope very well and also it was already deeply set, so with the given forecast I had no concerns doing this.

This was the underwater result for the Delta as seen in the morning. They have put very little force on the anchor, but does you have any confidence this will dig in? At this scope I know it will not. I would be surprised if you could get it to set any better than shown. It takes about 15 knots before a minimally set anchor starts to drag, but with very little chain on the bottom the critical dragging windspeed is lowered and I think they were lucky not to reach this threshold in the night. There is some substrate around the toe, but I could not see any real drag mark. I suspect with the shallow scope it was just the very tip of the toe that was engaging so it was just too shallow to see.





The final photo shows the rock that was sitting just behind their stern all night .



I suspect the skipper would have just viewed this as a successful overnight stay, after all they didn't drag. I hope seeing the underwater photos, knowing the short scope and seeing what little room they had to drag before doing damage you are as horrified as I was, and this is with a forecast of 12 knots. Unfortunately, I see this sort stuff all the time, so forgive my passion trying to convince people to buy good gear and use sound techniques.

[a64pilot]

And this is where the conflict comes in
Do you ride over there in your dink, camera in hand to show him his anchor, and hopefully maybe save his boat in the future, hoping that if your nice he will take it the right way?

[robert sailor]

Sometimes a tough call. I was having a look at my anchor and thought I'd peek at the fellow that anchored right on top of me. Didn't turn out that well, me...your anchor is not set..him...I don't understand? Followed by a laugh later with his mates. Its just part of the Med experience.