Photos of Anchors Setting

[NornaBiron]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

New anchorage. 9m @ 5:1

This is a very deep set with the fluke buried a long way under the substrate. This indicates a much softer substrate than is normal for this area. It is mostly mud, under the thin weed covering. The setting force was a bit higher, as there was 20 knots of wind, which added to the force produced by the motor. The Mantus took slightly longer to set this time, perhaps 3m, but has ended up deeply buried and level. A great result. In this sort of medium soft substate most anchors do well, but this is a big concave fluke area buried a long way down. Without the large roll bar there would be nothing to see.

Interestingly, for the first time the Mantus failed to set on the initial drop. This does occasionally happen for anchors and the Mantus has done a great job to go so long without this occurring. It started very slowing dragging after about 20 seconds in full reverse. I will go for a dive and see if I can find the first drag mark from the original set and see if there was any reason.

This is how it set on the second try:

This is an interesting set. We have just arrived back in Pethi on Symi, Greece, we tried to anchor close into the beach as we have 30 knots forecast for tomorrow. The seabed is like a well ploughed field, soft and mushy, we held well with a 4 -1 scope until I raised our revs to 1,800. The guy next to us gave us the thumbs up to say we had set well and then we slowly dragged about 10 metres, so we up anchored and move into 20 metres depth and set using 80 metres of chain. It just proved to us that you cannot anchor on a soft substrate and necessarily always trust your anchor - especially if you can't see it.

Thumbs up for the 'John method' of anchoring as usual!

[JPA Cate]

Noelex,

Superb pic of the Mantus on the slope [#3 in the series]! Very professional looking, kudos to you or the mermaid, whoever did the series.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

Re the CQR set in post 670:

I think I know why the chap didn't pull on the anchor! Look at the size of the shackles between the swivel and the anchor and chain... look like about 3/16 inch s/s long Dee shackles. If he pulled hard on them they might fail, and then he would loose his anchor!!

Sharing an anchorage with folks like that is what makes cruising so interesting... not often one gets to see death wishes expressed so openly!

Cheers,

Jim

[noelex 77]

This is a totally unset Delta.

There was actually a long very shallow drag mark that extended over 10m. I am afraid this was so shallow that it did not show up well in any of the photos. I have included one anyway. If you look closely you can just see the arc of the drag in the sand.

This anchor looks like it has been just dropped on the bottom without any setting force, but a nice steady setting force was applied. The Delta refused to engage,or even dig a big enough trench to show up well in the photos.

The problem was a lack of scope. In this case it was about 2.5:1. This is a very tough scope for any anchor and most anchors will not even begin to set. As was the case here. Unfortunately the Delta struggles even at 3:1. This was quite deep drop (10m) which does help, but there is no indication of any engagement from the Delta.

[noelex 77]

This is another totally unset Delta.

However, the marks in the sand reveal a different story from the previous example.
This anchor had almost no drag mark and had not been subject to any setting force.

The wind was very light, which does not help.

Any anchor just dropped like this will not set until some force is placed on it from the wind, or from the boat.

It was on a good scope (about 6:1) in soft sand. I can only speculate what it would have done if the wind picked up and applied some more force, but I think it would have probably set OK. This is in contrast to previous example that showed from its long shallow drag mark that it was struggling (because of a very short scope)

[kas_1611]

Noelex, do you show the owners of these anchors your pictures at all?

I hope they accept your intentions with the grace that they should after all you are helping to show them the risks they are taking with their boats by not bothering to set their anchors properly, and for that matter with our boats.

Can you say if these abused anchors are from charter boats or private ones? Just wondering as we have noticed there is a high proportion of the "lob it and hope" members that are actually private flagged vessels.

Cheers

Keiron

[noelex 77]

It is a mixture but most of the anchors I have shown lately have been from private boats.

As I get to the more remote anchorages the quality of anchoring (both techniques and hardware) starts to improve dramatically.

At the moment I am nearer busy centres. Here many of the boats are anchoring temporally and escape back to a marina, or safe anchorages overnight. There is less care and expertise, hence the poor results lately.

We are alone in the anchorage tonight. This anchorage would generally be not considered safe overnight. So most boats leave in the late afternoon despite the beauty.

The versatility to enjoy anchorages like this overnight is one of the advantages of good anchoring gear. A small increase in anchor weight and quality brings enormous benefits in the increased options that can be safely utilised.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Noelex, do you show the owners of these anchors your pictures at all?

Very rarely. Skippers are very independent lot and generally don't take kindly to advice. If there is something grossly wrong like a Fortress set at 45 degrees in hard sand, or an anchor lying on some debris I will tell them, but otherwise generally not.

If an anchor is very badly set I usually swim slowly past the boat and give them a wave. Often they have seen me diving on their anchor and ask what I was doing. After some small talk I will broach the subject that their anchor is poorly set and with only 3:1 when the forecast strong wind hits they will drag, but frankly it rarely does any good.

Often I feel guilty and keep a careful eye on the vulnerable boats. Everyone always appreciates when you alert them that they are dragging.

Originally Posted by kas_1611

Can you say if these abused anchors are from charter boats or private ones? Just wondering as we have noticed there is a high proportion of the "lob it and hope" members that are actually private flagged vessels.

To give you some idea of the mix from the last few photos:

Post number:

631 not sure
633 crewed charter boat
641 private
665 private
666 private
667 charter bareboat
670 private
679 private
680 private

[kas_1611]

Understand, it is often difficult to tell someone they have messed up without them taking offence so wise move to not broach it directly but only bring it into a conversation if they ask.

Interesting that you have also seen a high % of private vessels with the poorly set anchors. This does seem to backup my own observations. Perhaps the thought of losing your deposit as a charterer does focus the mind on making sure you are secure. You'd think the thought of losing your boat would do that even more so wouldn't you.

Would be interesting to tally up poor anchor set versus vessel flag to see if there is any correlation but that's something for another thread me thinks.

Keiron

[noelex 77]

This was yesterday. It was an Ultra dropped in light weed. It was deep, perhaps in 15m on a scope of about 4:1.

The wind was very light and they put only a little setting force on the anchor. It has rotated level and the tip has penetrated the weed and started to dig in, so it looks promising at this early stage.

The only negative is that it had taken 3-4m to reach this point. It does not appear to be setting any quicker than the Spade. To put this in perspective, the Spade is much quicker setting than the convex plow anchors, but not quite as fast as the concave roll bar anchors.

[noelex 77]

This is the Mantus.

It is actually the same anchorage as before.
The wind is predicted to rise to around 25 knots. While this is not much wind and the anchor was still securely set after 24 hours, 25 knots is reaching the stage where I would not be comfortable at the very low scope we had.

Having snorkelled around the anchorage, we knew the areas with good sand that would permit a longer scope so we moved this morning.

This is lovely soft sand and the Mantus has disappeared apart from the roll bar. It set in not much more than a metre in 8m @ 4:1.

[Kenomac]

I've attached these to photos from yesterday when we anchored in a cove 16 miles away from where we dragged two weeks ago.

One is of the weedball we pulled up twice from the first anchorage we eventually abandoned due to poor holding... Makes you wonder about the other 12 boats that remained anchored there, and if their anchors were going to hold. We pulled out the weedball with only 1000rpms, the anchor never really grabbed onto anything. The second is from the anchorage 3 miles away where we found good holding. As you can see... it's impossible to know what's below the weeds and grass. The anchor set in the two pics is one meter below the grass. The yellow float which can be seen is on a one meter cable attached to the top of the 45kg Ultra anchor. 2200 rpm reverse throttle 85% 7:1 scope.

Ken

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by conachair

Any chance we could keep the cqr / newgen in threads elsewhere, please ? In the history of threads this is one of the best ever, it would be nice to stay on topic without the "anchor noise"
Ta

Personally, I think a thread showing amazing pictures of various anchor technologies at work is a great place to also discuss them. (On second thought, you are right. God forbid a CF anchor discussion be so riddled with data. )

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

It is a danger with weed. The weed itself can provide enough grip to hold the anchor, even in moderate winds. People think their anchor has done a good job holding in the weed, because the boat did not move overnight. The reality with this sort of example is the grip is very poor. Without digging into the substrate the anchor will let go as soon as the wind reaches a higher level.

Indeed this happened to me in Eatons Neck Basin a few years ago. Anchored with a Bruce on the windward side of the channel the day before. Line of thunderstorms came through during the night. The boat held fine. Thought I was set for the remainder of my stay. The next day 30 to 35 knot winds started blowing boat was still fine until the tide raised the hull over the protecting dunes creating a little more windage. Was down below at mid day when I felt the bump. Boat was across the channel on the lee shore. Luckily still pointing into the wind. I was alone and moved fast to raise the anchor and found a clump of weeds in it. Left the area rather than risk any more of that type of excitement.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I've attached these to photos from yesterday when we anchored in a cove 16 miles away from where we dragged two weeks ago.

One is of the weedball we pulled up twice from the first anchorage we eventually abandoned due to poor holding... Makes you wonder about the other 12 boats that remained anchored there, and if their anchors were going to hold. We pulled out the weedball with only 1000rpms, the anchor never really grabbed onto anything. The second is from the anchorage 3 miles away where we found good holding. As you can see... it's impossible to know what's below the weeds and grass. The anchor set in the two pics is one meter below the grass. The yellow float which can be seen is on a one meter cable attached to the top of the 45kg Ultra anchor. 2200 rpm reverse throttle 85% 7:1 scope.

Ken

When we pulled up the anchor pictured in post #687, we discovered that it had set in sandy mud which was apparently three feet below a grass and mud surface. The stainless cable attached to the yellow float is actually five feet long. So this was like anchoring in three feet of quicksand mixed with grass before the anchor grabbed onto something it could hold onto.

There were many long furrows carved into the bottom by other boats.