Photos of Anchors Setting

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Factor

I dont sell them, but nevertheless you think I should spend time and money organising a wide ranging photo shoot.

Well that might be possible, but it would take time and money. Perhaps a commercial sponsor who supplies Excels might like to put up the cash.

Pete

[noelex 77]

Next is a Delta dropped from a charter yacht. They arrived late yesterday and let out a lot of chain. (Later measured as 80m in 7m of water making a scope of about 9.5:1).

There is no benefit having chain in the anchor locker, but these excessively long scopes in only mild wind do create the potential to swing into other boats. If it blowing strongly, sure, everyone will be using a long scope, so there is little problem.

This anchorage is not usually frequented overnight so they probably felt that they would be alone. I had to let out another 20m to avoid possible conflict.

This was their anchor the next morning courtesy of my mermaid's pre-breakfast swim.

They set their anchor with little reverse, but there was 15-20 knot breeze that provided a reasonable setting force. In the night it swung around from a westerly to a northerly of similar strength, or a bit lighter.

You can see the initial setting mark of about 3m in response to the westerly wind. It is nice soft sand and the drag mark shows a progressive dig in without any skips and jumps.

In response to the 90 degree change in wind direction overnight, the anchor has rotated around. Notice it has developed quite a list. The Delta is almost always very level when set, but it does develop a significant list when rotating around. With time it will drag a little in the direction of the new wind and rotate level again. It is a trait I do not like. The anchor is much more vulnerable to breaking out with this sort of list. This is by no means a bad example, in fact the long scope and slow wind shift at a low wind speed has left less of list than I commonly see.

I will try to take some more photos of the Delta and other fixed convex plow (or plough I don't mind) anchors during this rotation phase to illustrate the point. Anchor performance during a wind shift is not well covered by traditional anchor tests.

[monte]

Interesting. How do you measure the scope noëlex? You always seem pretty good on the guesstimates. 10 kicks toward the boat is 10m? Using your rangefinder and some nifty calculations, or maybe counting the links with your binocs? Radar?mermaid gps? Hehe I'm curious which method you use.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by monte

10 kicks toward the boat is 10m?

Often there are chain marks which makes it easy, but not in this case.

This was a measured mermaid swim (I use time, she uses fin strokes).

102 fin strokes (to where the chain would drop straight down) (@0.64 strokes per metre) = 65m + 13m (bottom to the bow roller) = 78m. I rounded this to 80m.

It is worth developing a good method of estimating distance if you dive. It is useful knowing how much chain other boats have out in potential conflict situations and it can also be used to judge if you will swing into hazards.

In the photo you can just see my mermaid's black fins sticking out of the water as she dives down (the orange float is carried to stop other boats bumping into us as we surface). The anchor belongs to boat nearest the camera.

[monte]

Ah I see, looks like a 12m boat about 6 boat lengths to the anchor as well I guess. Yeah I'm not the best with guesstimates. Often we anchor and Jen say ' aren't we a bit close to that yacht?' I say nah, she'll be right and we end up backing down on top of them ... Always trust the mermaids!

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Factor

I dont sell them, but nevertheless you think I should spend time and money organising a wide ranging photo shoot.

Nobody's asking for an expensive photo shoot. If you live somewhere that it's practical, why don't you dive down on yours and show some pictures?

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Factor

And the Excel? Yes I know its rare over there, but I haven't seen too many ultras here, nor spades, nor kobras over here

Noellex can only comment on and take pictures of anchors he sees. Anchors are extremely regional. It would be great if people from other parts of the world were contributing more to this thread, but they aren't. I don't think it's fair to complain about that, though!

New generation non-roll bar anchors are few and far between. In Europe there's only really the ultra and spade (and maybe Boss, I don't know if Manson have a dealer network in Europe). In North America, just the Boss (Spade is available, but very expensive). In Oceania the Boss and Excel (not sure about the Spade).

I'm sure I've missed some lesser known anchors

[noelex 77]

The wind picked up slightly this afternoon to the low 20s.
This is a good time to photograph anchors because by the time the boat develops a little backwards momentum the setting force is reasonable without any reverse required (25-30 is even better, 30-40 is fascinating, but the conditions become a bit unpleasant snorkelling).

This was a Kobra in 7m @ 6:1.

Anyone who does not think fixed convex plow anchors share many similar characteristics (note: not identical performance) should compare this photo with the many photos of Delta anchors. The other photos of the Kobra (as in post #83, #467, #597, #640) are also worth reviewing.

Here we see the Kobra has taken a relatively long distance to set, perhaps 5m. There is a reasonable amount of heaping up of the sand and the back of fluke is exposed.

I hope by showing photos rather than just offering an opinion, it justifies the view that Delta and Kobra anchors deserve to be grouped together not only for their similar geometry, construction, fluke design (area and shape) and tip weight, but also because they share a lot of similar characteristics in the way they work.

That does not mean we should not discuss the differences. The Kobra in my view is slightly better than the Delta.

Some manufacturers claim they have sprinkled their anchor with fairy dust and made it work in an entirely new and radical way from other similar anchors. This sort of marketing hype is understandable, but that doesn't mean we have to fall for it.

[noelex 77]

This was a genuine CQR.

It was dropped in the same conditions (wind in the low 20s) so that provided a reasonable setting force. 5m @ 5:1.

It dragged about 6m until it was slowed down by this light clump of weed. When my mermaid and I arrived it was still very slowly moving backwards an inch at time. These sort of very slow drags are more common than people think, of course they are very difficult to recognise from the boat. It is particularly worrying when the drags occur without any further digging in of the anchor, as was the case here.

As you can see that anchor is still completely on its side with only the tip barely engaging the substrate. A slight increase in wind strength would see this anchor take off.

[noelex 77]

This Delta was also photographed while the wind was in the low 20's, providing the guarantee of at least a reasonable setting force.

It was in 13m of water with about a 5:1 scope.

You can see a long drag mark, it was over 10m. The final result is a standard Delta set with quite a degree of heaping up of the soft sand.

[Factor]

Anyone who does not think fixed convex plow anchors share many similar characteristics (note: not identical performance) should compare this photo with the many photos of Delta anchors. The other photos of the Kobra (as in post #83, #467, #597, #640) are also worth reviewing.

All that does is indicate that Kobra/Delta anchors share similar characteristics, two of the non sugar scoop roll bar anchors on the market. It does not and indeed cannot be extrapolated to prove or even infer that all non sugar scoop roll bar anchors are alike.

I hope by showing photos rather than just offering an opinion, it justifies the view that Delta and Kobra anchors deserve to be grouped together not only for their similar geometry, construction, fluke design (area and shape) and tip weight, but also because they share a lot of similar characteristics in the way they work.

Absolutely agree - the delta and Kobra are very similar, apparently, I have no experience with the Kobra.

Some manufacturers claim they have sprinkled their anchor with fairy dust and made it work in an entirely new and radical way from other similar anchors. This sort of marketing hype is understandable, but that doesn't mean we have to fall for it.

Who claims that? I know back in the Smith days of Rocna they did have some interesting claims to make. But apart from them - to whom do you refer?

[downunder]

I also would like to see the Sarca Excel in action underwater.

No way it can be lumped in with the CQR, Korbra or Delta.

This is what they look like for those who aren't familiar, a very different anchor in the flesh.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Well that might be possible, but it would take time and money. Perhaps a commercial sponsor who supplies Excels might like to put up the cash.

Pete

Only problem there with a commercial sponsor involved results could be criticised by many and construed as a setup by the manufacturer.

The beauty of the photos noelex and others here is there are real cruising shots untainted by the manufacturer although clearly he is using much better anchoring technique than most others he comes across.

[noelex 77]

I do have a bit of a soft spot for a Bruce anchor. They work unlike any other anchor. One of their attributes is that they perform very well on a short scope.

This one was a claw, not a genuine Bruce, but it was on a very short scope of perhaps 2.5:1 in 5m of water (it is very difficult to accurately estimate these very small amounts of chain, but the scope was very short).

Most anchors would not set at all, but this little claw was doing its best. It was slowly dragging in the 20+ knots wind. It had gone about 10m at this stage. It is obviously not really set, but it is still gripping onto the bottom, look at the angle of the chain!

This is not the way to anchor. I don't think the owner even realised he was (slowly) dragging. A bit more scope would have made a world of difference. A gutsy effort from the anchor though:

[UNCIVILIZED]

Do you have any shots of Northill types is similar bottoms? Obviously they're vulnerable to fouling if there's a big shift, but I'm curious as to how they are in bottoms like this. I can't help but wonder if their slightly smaller fluke profile would let them dig in for a better overall bite.

I know that I've seen them on a LOT of work boats in the Pacific NW, albeit those are totally different anchoring conditions for the most part, still... I'm curious to see'em underwater wherever.

PS: And when I say Northill type, I'm not referring so much to the old fold up seaplane anchors, as the welded & cast, heavy duty versions. Which one can take apart into a couple of pieces if you so desire, & thus stow'em relatively small & flat, down below. Or on the #2 roller without fouling up everything if you like.