Photos of Anchors Setting

[monte]

Here's a quick one of the kobra for yesterday's lunch stop. We didn't apply the usual reverse to set it but it seems to have started to engage straight away. We were just stopping for a quick snorkel at Chatham bay, Union island.

[noelex 77]

Eventually the boat stopped reversing and the Delta ground to a halt.

It was not a very weedy substrate, but the Delta gradually collected a large ball of weed along the way.

Some people believe that the flukes of convex anchors don't become clogged in these circumstances. It is true that when a convex anchor is raised to the surface often weed will fall off before breaking the surface, leaving little sign.

On the bottom, where it counts, there is a very different picture. This sort of "flower arrangement" is quite common. The weed doesn't fall off the anchor when it is on the bottom. You can see the flukes are clogged. The weed ball has also raised the rear of the fluke up so the tip is no longer at the correct angle to dig in. This prevents the anchor working properly.

In my opinion, the longer setting distance makes convex anchors more prone to this sort of clogging in weed. An anchor that takes 5m or so to set, normally runs the risk in heavy weed of getting very clogged before it even has a chance to dig in.

An anchor with a short setting distance stands a much better chance of burying itself before the flukes and the tip get this clogged. The only anchors that will regularly set in a metre or so in my view are the concave anchors.

Here is the very pretty (as long as you are not relying on the anchor) Delta "flower arrangment":

[cwyckham]

Wow. These are great, Noelex. I can't believe the drag mark over your chain!

[hoppy]

So it was an Energizer anchor?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by monte

Here's a quick one of the kobra for yesterday's lunch stop. We didn't apply the usual reverse to set it but it seems to have started to engage straight away. We were just stopping for a quick snorkel at Chatham bay, Union island.
Attachment 104196

So what kind of bottom is that? soft sand? And, what would happen if a bit of breeze came up? Would then the windage of the vessel cause the anchor to dig in more deeply, or would it pop out and skitter along the surface?

Ann

[rgesner]

Looks like you have a trip line. Was there also an anchor buoy, and they still dropped that close?

[kas_1611]

Now that's what I call a close shave!

I guess if your chain hadn't been slightly subsurface the Delta would have hooked it and potentially dragged the Mantus or do you think it would have held you both?

We had a similar thing when we anchored out of the gale the other day. We'd dropped nicely in about 9m of water with best part of 50m of chain out and I had a pretty good fix on exactly where the Vulcan was as the Admiral started a GPS track on the chartplotter as soon as we dropped.

Given it is a huge bay and there were only 4 other boats in there was loads of space but still someone came in and tried to drop right in front of us. As they laid back they ended up about 15m ahead of us which was way to close for comfort so I indicated my discomfort and waited for the inevitable moment when they pulled our chain as well as theirs. Thankfully it didn't happen and they eventually dropped and set further into the shallower water (much smaller boat). Still makes you question their thinking.

Keiron

[monte]

Anne I didn't inspect it up close, but appeared to be a mix of sand, coral and stone so I don't know how well it would dig in if properly set. We didn't really reverse on the anchor, just laid out the chain and went for a snorkel In search of turtles. The bay is pretty protected and shallow 3m, so I wasn't concerned about dragging. The next stop downwind would have been 1000M to Honduras we very rarely don't set the anchor like this, but also rarely just stop for an hours swim. We didn't bother setting the bridle but it was noisy without it and I was a bit concerned about the chain dragging against the hull as we swing (it was gusty and a bit of current)
Not a recommended anchoring technique..

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by rgesner

Looks like you have a trip line. Was there also an anchor buoy, and they still dropped that close?

It helps show the anchor position, especially in weed or in very soft substrates where even the tall roll bar can disappear. If the anchor does get snagged it is also then much easier to attach a line to pull the anchor out backwards.

If the anchor doesn't have a roll bar to use as an attachment point, threading a line through the small hole in the anchor underwater when the anchor is partially buried is a difficult task. The float also reduces the required diving depth by a couple of metres.

The float is not visible from the surface.

[hoppy]

What kind of float did you use? You don't want one that collapses the first time you anchor in deep water.

At one anchorage I swung over a buoy that marked a swimming area. My chain dragged the buoy UW and once I swung back releasing the buoy, it was no longer round 😉


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[noelex 77]

This was another a Delta.

A typical Delta set.

For those fortunate enough to cruise warm clear waters, one thing to bear in mind is that from the surface the anchor invariably looks much better set that if you get down towards the seabed.

I realise not everyone enjoys free diving, although it is not a skill that is difficult to learn. The shots below of the same anchor from both the seabed and surface illustrate how the the appearance from the latter can often be misleading. It invariably looks better from above.

[Pete P]

It seems like you have a lot of time to watch people get it wrong, and lots of energy to photograph their mistakes, but little motivation to assist them.

On a single week flotilla holiday a few years ago I experienced this quite a few times, including once when we were reversing into a berth and had the owner of the (admittedly fancy) yacht next to us, shout out a warning not to dare touch his boat. It was clear that myself and my wife were struggling but his only effort was put into standing on the bow is his precious, and watch us get increasingly stressed trying to be safe, accurate and considerate of other boats. Even after I caught my finger in the anchor chain as it streamed out - I'll never understand how I didn't lose the finger - and scrambled the length of the boat with blood gushing from my hand, he still didn't consider helping us worth his while.

We managed the job with some assistance from the boat on the other side and a passer by on the dock, and as we attended to my wound the guy sat in aft deck and drank his gin without ever speaking to us.

Perhaps it would be better to help avoid problems for everybody by offering assistance, especially when you can see a problem arising. If you end up snagged on their anchor you are just as much to blame if you saw the problem and made no effort to prevent it. I'm sure you'd have made enough effort to complain loudly if they had caught your chain.

We're not all worldly sailors who Live aboard all year, and I'm sure there are people out there that would see the way you do some things and shake their head. Wouldn't you prefer that they helped you and shared their experience rather than sneered at you and watched you get into difficulties?

I'm talking about the incident you watched, not the sharing on this forum. Clearly you impart some useful information online.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by hoppy

What kind of float did you use? You don't want one that collapses the first time you anchor in deep water.

Yes, good point.
I use fishing floats that are foam filled and very tough plastic. I have actually never purchased one. There are lots washed up on the beaches. Bits of disgarded net are quite dangerous to marine life so I try and pick these up anyway when I see them.

At some times of the year squid lay eggs on the float and without a bit of reserve buoyancy the float will sink, so it pays to go slightly larger than you might think. You need to be careful not to upset the balance of the anchor, but the tiny amount of buoyancy will have a negligible effect. If anything, it probably helps the effective weight on the tip (like the Hydrobubble anchor).

Of greater concern is that a thick rope could inhibit the penetration of the anchor, especially when the only suitable attachment point is low down on the fluke. I use a spectra line so it is thin, but strong enough to winch the anchor out if necessary.

[rgesner]

Why not use a visible buoy, which would help others know where your anchor is so they don't drop near it?

I've seen several methods of weighting the trip line so it doesn't foul or let the buoy pull on the anchor, such as this one which uses leaded crab pot line: http://mvdirona.com/technicalarticle...on_Diagram.jpg

- Rusty

[Sun and Moon]

Originally Posted by Pete P

It seems like you have a lot of time to watch people get it wrong, and lots of energy to photograph their mistakes, but little motivation to assist them.

On a single week flotilla holiday a few years ago I experienced this quite a few times, including once when we were reversing into a berth and had the owner of the (admittedly fancy) yacht next to us, shout out a warning not to dare touch his boat. It was clear that myself and my wife were struggling but his only effort was put into standing on the bow is his precious, and watch us get increasingly stressed trying to be safe, accurate and considerate of other boats. Even after I caught my finger in the anchor chain as it streamed out - I'll never understand how I didn't lose the finger - and scrambled the length of the boat with blood gushing from my hand, he still didn't consider helping us worth his while.

We managed the job with some assistance from the boat on the other side and a passer by on the dock, and as we attended to my wound the guy sat in aft deck and drank his gin without ever speaking to us.

Perhaps it would be better to help avoid problems for everybody by offering assistance, especially when you can see a problem arising. If you end up snagged on their anchor you are just as much to blame if you saw the problem and made no effort to prevent it. I'm sure you'd have made enough effort to complain loudly if they had caught your chain.

We're not all worldly sailors who Live aboard all year, and I'm sure there are people out there that would see the way you do some things and shake their head. Wouldn't you prefer that they helped you and shared their experience rather than sneered at you and watched you get into difficulties?

I'm talking about the incident you watched, not the sharing on this forum. Clearly you impart some useful information online.

If you actually bothered to read this thread before shooting your mouth off, you would discover that Noelex has address your question in the past. Yes, it's a lot of pages, but it's jammed packed with great information about how anchors actually perform and how you can learn to evaluate your own practices and performance. I know I've learned a ton. Thanks Noelex and other contributors!

There's very little information in most of these posts to indicate what Noelex might or might not have said to neighboring crews. There's certainly no indication he sneered at them or would be impolite if an incident occurred. I think you owe him an apology.