Rocna Recall - China vs Canada Quality Comparison

[AllezCat]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

You know, one thing no one has mentioned...judging by all the bent shanks, you have to admit the holding power of the Rocna is pretty damn good.

Seems great - zero movement in wind changes.
At least it doesn't break!

[Overlord]

i returned my 88 pound rocna to WM. they ordered me a new one from Canada steel. it is still made in China. It has a sticker , made in China

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by chris smith

i returned my 88 pound rocna to WM. they ordered me a new one from Canada steel. it is still made in China. It has a sticker , made in China

there are no Rocna anchors made from Canada steel, nor have there been for 4 years.

[Cormorant]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

where is the "nail punch" post? - I looked everywhere...

AllezCat -- the original nail punch post is here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post678407
(hope that link leads to Post #62), and then some elaboration in later posts in that thread.

[Overlord]

ok , thanks. canada metal then.

[estarzinger]

[QUOTE=AllezCat;829547]I gave it a little wack with my leatherman marlin spike - left a little indent.
Emailed Rocna - they confirmed it to be the "steel called for in the manufacturing specifications".
I believe them - but then again I believe a lot of things...

QUOTE]

We need one of our steel experts, but on the face of it, that does not sound great. Leatherman use 420HC steel on most of their products (which the data sheet says 420HC tensile of 600mp and yield of 310mp). I believe that the 'currently specified' 620 steel is supposed to have a 620mp yield. You should not be able to use 420HC to easily make an indent in 620 - so this is somewhat indicative that you may have gotten one of the 'bad' 400 shanks. (side note: The 'original specification' of Bis80 had a tensile of 830mp and yield of 750mp.) Metal guys - do I have that right?

Just as an amusing aside. There was an almost identical china metal debacle with Coast Cutlery. Coast claimed to be using high grade steel. Leatherman tested a few of their products and found 420 rather than the advertised grade and sued Coast for false advertising. Coast then claimed "That in November 2010, Coast learned that its factory in China was using 420 steel instead of the specified steel."

[Delfin]

[QUOTE=estarzinger;829625]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

I gave it a little wack with my leatherman marlin spike - left a little indent.
Emailed Rocna - they confirmed it to be the "steel called for in the manufacturing specifications".
I believe them - but then again I believe a lot of things...

QUOTE]

We need one of our steel experts, but on the face of it, that does not sound great. Leatherman use 420HC steel on most of their products (which the data sheet says 420HC tensile of 600mp and yield of 310mp). I believe that the 'currently specified' 620 steel is supposed to have a 620mp yield. You should not be able to use 420HC to easily make an indent in 620 - so this is somewhat indicative that you may have gotten one of the 'bad' 400 shanks. (side note: The 'original specification' of Bis80 had a tensile of 830mp and yield of 750mp.) Metal guys - do I have that right?

Just as an amusing aside. There was an almost identical china metal debacle with Coast Cutlery. Coast claimed to be using high grade steel. Leatherman tested a few of their products and found 420 rather than the advertised grade and sued Coast for false advertising. Coast then claimed "That in November 2010, Coast learned that its factory in China was using 420 steel instead of the specified steel."

Yes, your metallurgical statements are correct. When I tested my anchor, a standard nail punch indented the Rocna easily without deformation of the punch. When I punched a Japanese chisel of known Rockwell hardness equivalent to Bisalloy 80, the punch flattened.

Here is what the fluke of my Rocna looked like after tapping with a punch:

And after tapping the shank:

And the smudge mark after tapping an 800 MPa chisel:

And the punch after tapping the chisel:

[olaf hart]

So, these things are galvanized.
How can you tell you are not just seeing deformation of the zinc, rather than the steel of the shank?

[careka]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

So, these things are galvanized.
How can you tell you are not just seeing deformation of the zinc, rather than the steel of the shank?

Good Q. how much Zink is on them ?

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

So, these things are galvanized.
How can you tell you are not just seeing deformation of the zinc, rather than the steel of the shank?

If you wish,you can grind the zinc off, but you will get the same result. The galvanizing is not very thick, and not thick enough to prevent penetration of the punch to the steel, where the punch would have been deformed had the steel been of the advertised hardness. But you're right, if you want greater accuracy, use a file to remove all galvanizing and have at it.

[S/V Alchemy]

Proof, meet pudding.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by AllezCat

Just received a new rocna 110
west marine said there is no problem.
was shipped from Canada.
Should be non Chinese batch.

thx

Tough break man.

Sorry to hear it.

WM should take it back.

[sdowney717]

I don't know why people keep fooling around buying anchors of unknown and unknowable durability. Perhaps they feel they can beat the odds and get a bargain.

Still how many anchors have bent and then pulled out in storms versus just dragging?

[Chrisgo]

Can't you just hire a metal shop to make one from scratch with whatever steel you want?

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Tough break man.

Sorry to hear it.

WM should take it back.

I don't think the leatherman result is ompletely definitive - its too seat of the pants - but at the least, given the results of the 'leatherman test', I would take the anchor to someone who could do a scientific/accurate hardness test. This is not difficult, its just a very precise punch and then the resulting dent measured very precisely. I think AllezCat is in Florida and it should not be too difficult to find someone who can do this test there (perhaps ask a machine local shop or google hardness testing). With those results you will know for definite one way or the other, and it they say its the 'bad' 400 grade steel you have 'proof' for WM to take it back.

There are various hardness tests (Brinell, Rockwell, Vickers, and a few others) - any should tell you what you need to know (which is "is this the current speced 620 grade or 'old/bad' 400 grade?").