Rocna Recall - China vs Canada Quality Comparison

[JonJo]

David Old Jersey,

David I cannot seriously believe you are suggesting that anyone currently or previously associated with Rocna has any credibility such that they could restart production anywhere. After 5 years of systemic mis-information do you truly suggest they can be trusted. There is much evidence that the Rocna design might be as good as that of Manson's Supreme when made to the original design and specification. There is too much evidence that this design was simply an advertising ploy when they were actually making to another cheaper specification, and doing this from 2008 to at least 2010. Frankly none of them should be tolerated to make anything for the marine industry.

There are two more factors - of the people who have bough underspecified Rocnas world wide how many read this and the other forums, how many read PS? I'd guess there are whole tranches of boat owners out there who bought Rocnas on the basis of their blue water capablities (rather than their lunch pick quality, which is actually all they are fit for) who have no idea their anchors might bend - and if you are in Patagonia with a bent anchor you have a serious problem. And I do not like to be repetitive but the other worldwide distributors still seem to be selling Rocnas with no attempt to isse their own recalls. Most people pay by credit card - identification and personal recall might be difficult but is possible. There are plenty of boasting magazines world wide who would happily publish a safety notice - where is honesty and concern for the customer (as opposed to the concern for making as much money as possible at our expense).

David - it was a great idea but please save you marketing skills for products and people a bit more deserving of your wisdom.

Have a great day.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Vyndance II

In the detail pictures, the weld on the Canada anchor was done to cold to fast. There is a peak in the filler and voids on the shank. It is pretty but is not strong. It is basically glued together.


)

But it has been shown that they are both from China.

[Therapy]

Dropped my Rocna at WM yesterday.

They did not know about what is happening so I left the notice from WM with them.

They said my Supreme should be here in a week or so.

I figured West (and Manson) would be sold out by now but they said WM have ordered (and know they will be shipped) seven of them.

[David M]

It really is buyer beware with Chinese metallurgy. It is probably best not to take that chance with their metal products where life or expensive property is at stake. Not all of their products are bad of course, but how are we supposed to know which metal products are up to specification and which are not when they keep exporting us junk like this anchor? I have seen plenty of other examples of poor metallurgy from China, so I am not picking on them over one instance.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by David M

It really is buyer beware with Chinese metallurgy. It is probably best not to take that chance with their metal products where life or expensive property is at stake. Not all of their products are bad of course, but how are we supposed to know which metal products are up to specification and which are not?

Apparently you don't.

Like with drywall and toys.

[JonJo]

You might be missing the point. This was a New Zealand designed anchor made to a specification set by a NZ company. The NZ company claimed, on a variety of forum, that they had a high level of quiality control and posted images to support it. The orginal specification was to use 800mpa stee,l the NZ company cut this to 420mpa. The Chinese subcontractor made exactly what was requested of him. I'm not sure where your accusations of low quality CHINESE come from in this instance. This is low quality, in this case, NZ, product.

There are still distributors importing Rocna's, knowing they are of questionable quality. Why is the Chinese manufacturer being critisized? He has made to the spec given to him, they pass that 'high' level of quality control (?) imposed by Holdfast (if there are product slipping through - then Holdfast should be withdrawing them from sale and point out the defficiencies - without this the factory assumes they are acceptable, they are imported by people who should know better.

Rumour out on the street is that the Smiths, of NZ Rocna fame, have a new design - are we to be set up again?

[zeehag]

in the china chain incident in san diego breaking a link in 1 inch chain on a mooring in 65+ kt winds... was not the steel that is the chinese problem, but the welds and galvanization done in china. the link was twisted and open because the weld failde due to galvanization not being uniform and well done.
the steel is steel. the welds are poorer and the galvanizing process faulty in the cheaper chinese stuff, some chinese welds are awesome, but the ones that cause drastic and dramatic failures are the ones remembered.

[JonJo]

Was the San Diego chain, cheap chain or was it proof tested chain. If it was proof tested, there is a real problem. If it was cheap chain, now we know why. It was cheap probably because someone rejected it as having poor welds and gal. It might also have been cheap becuase the Chinese made it to a spec for security fencing but some smart guy thought he could make a quick buck.

it would not matter if the chain was made in England, China or America - if it is rejected on the grounds of poor welds it can either be sent as scrap or re-sold.

Its too easy to blame the Chinese, forgetting that good quality control produces a range of expensive leisure yachts from China, all of our electronic goods (some are good Apple, some are less good - the cheapo warehouse stuff) all of our china, cheapand expensive etc etc. Its selling the product for the application for which it is made, good quality control and expecting cheap product to be cheap for a reason.

If you tell me the San Diego chain was sold with a proof tested certificate etc etc, I'll withdraw my tirade!

[zeehag]

the san diego incidewnt in 1999easter sunday 0200 was result of a bid war dealt with by port of san diego. i would expect the lowest bidder was chosen , as is par.
i saw the link, btw, as was a friend of mine broken loose from the problem. was definitely th e galvanizationjh and weld caused the link to open and stretch and twist in high winds and allow chain not to be intact. the port of san diego lost the court case.
dont know as the chain was rejected before the port bought it--was brand new unused chain in barrels from china.

[JonJo]

We will probably never know - but there is a findamental problem when you buy only on price. Though it is quite possible (and is done) to take samples of chain from drums and proof test).

Rocna is different, high price, intentional low quality, 'claims' of strict quality control, misrepresentation of RINA certification, - high profit? Seems like simple avarice, contempt for customers and false advertising.

[sdowney717]

do any of you test your chain or line to see if it still is ok?
and if so how would you do that?

[JonJo]

Testing chain is a different issue.

If I buy proof tested anchor chain I expect it to perform for 'some time'. If I buy an anchor that is claimed to be 800mpa shanked I expect it to perform for 'some time' - I do not expect it to bend not long after I buy it because its actually made from 420mpa steel. We now have the spectre of the licensor of the Rocna, Mr Smith and family, looking at subjecting us to another of his designs - heaven help the gullible. Hopefully the avaricious chandlers will have learnt a lesson and will simply not stock - nipping the noxious weed in the bud (so to speak).

I have looked at chain 'quality', or mine specifically. My chain is now fairly gal free, so it rusts. I can either buy new chain or re-gal. In some places re-gal is quite cheap for me, locally, its so expensive I'll be buying new (proof tested) chain. Its not really an issue, we anchor a lot, which is why its quite gal free now, (so ground tackle is important) but buying new chain and costing it on the basis of cost of chain vs number of days used - chain actually works out quite cheap. For us we are getting about 750 days at anchor, others might get much more or less (I suspect if you 'boat' in rivers you might get much more and if you anchor a lot in coral or gravel - much less). Really the rate determining feature is the life of the gal (and it might be better quality? for better chain - do not know). I admit that if I used 12mm or half inch chain I might re-consider the cost - but smaller yachts cost less to run.

[ADMPRTR]

Originally Posted by avb3

Actually, on second thought, both of those anchors are make in China. The international two letter contraction for Canada is "CA" and China is "CN"....I AM surprised at the two different examples of quality... the mystery deepens.

I wanted to pipe in that my Rocna is made in China and does NOT have any apparant manufacturing defects or quality issues. The welds look good and the zinc is smooth.

It is possible that the poor quality version is counterfit or perhaps was made by a different company who does not net have sufficent quality control.

[LWatson]

I too bought a Rocna and I admit mostly on the hype that surrounded its efficiency and holding power. It IS made in China and when put side by side with the Manson, on the surface, appeared better made - smoother welds, no splatter, even galvanizing but that is the visible bits, now I find that it could be made with substandard metal. West Marine has kindly offered to refund my money and I am going to take them up on the offer. Latest tests show that the Manson is about equal and the Spade from Tunisia (at twice the price) is superior in most holding tests. There are enough posts attesting to Manson's performance that I suspect that is the anchor I will buy, when I get my refund from West (plus I will have about a hundred bucks left over for goodies).
I noticed on the RINA certificate posted on the Rocna site exactly who built their anchor in China. I took a look at their website and lo and behold their biggest claim to fame is making fittings for retail shops - no mention of anchors or other such heavy steel items. Further Rocna says the anchors are made in an ISO approved facility - no mention of that on the website and I thought this would be something they would tout. I just find it hard to put my boat and indeed my life on the line with an anchor of dubious manufacturing quality. No question that properly made it is probably a great anchor but I am tired of Rocna blowing smoke up my backside.

[congo]

Hi to all,

Rex Francis from here, I have noticed in your posts many wanting to know how proof testing is performed and how it relates to side pull on anchor shanks, I have no commercial interest in your part of the world as we don't sell there.

We have been through the whole process of getting accredited for Super High Holding Power and would like to share our information in detail with you, I have been trying to post this information along with accompaning photo's to enlighten you guys as what testing is all about, I keep getting a suspicious activity sign when I go to post so have emailed the forum.

We have just finished proof testing on two large anchors along with some great photo's ,this information, if for some reason I cannot get it on your forum it will be posted on our web site within the next few days,we intend to make all of our testing, method of testing ,test cert's what ever transparent available to the public so you know exactly what you should be looking for when trying to make up your mind in an anchor design.

None of this information should be confidentual, we are proud of what we have achieved and are more than happy to share it. if you go to our web site, there is already much reading in our research and development and some great video's, as I have said within the next few days I will be posting the process proof testing on there with photo's within the next few days.

Kind Regards.

Rex Francis .