Rocna Size

[avb3]

Originally Posted by sailingaway221

... let the smear campaign continue as hopefully i'll be able to get more of the fantastic anchors cheap off people that listen to this type of stuff.

No smear campaign. Rocna itself is admitting that they no longer build their anchors to the original speced steel.

For many months they were denying the same fact.

Facts are not opinions or smears. They are facts. And the facts are that Rocna mislead its customers.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

A bit ironic that in that photo on the new Rocna news page, showing the 28.7 ton straight-line pull, the shank is twisted like a pretzel. Now . . . I suppose some part of the anchor had to deform first under such a load. But still, just kinda funny. I wonder if they did any side-load testing while they were at it.

Cormorant, I noticed the same thing and wondered as well. Pure speculation, but I assume they side loaded the anchor first to bend it, then wanted to show that even after their substandard steel bent was still strong enough not to pull apart like taffy.

From the news story, I guess they decided that a "Yes it's made of crappy steel, but crappy is good enough" probably wasn't the banner for the ad campaign they wanted to run.

Instead they have acknowledged what everyone has known for some time. They sell an inferior product (compared to the alternatives) at a premium price to those who don't know, or don't care about getting punked.

Just proves that in a free market there is a product for everyone.

[Singleprop]

Originally Posted by sailingaway221

let the smear campaign continue as hopefully i'll be able to get more of the fantastic anchors cheap off people that listen to this type of stuff.

Actually - it's the Rocna side that's been running a smear campaign on all other brands....not the other way around.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Delfin

...
Just proves that in a free market there is a product for everyone.

As my used car dealer friend tells me, "There's a seat for every ass and an ass for every seat".

Used car dealers can show Rocna a lesson in credibility and transparency.

[Shawn67]

Curious how this will effect warranty returns.... since the specs have been changed this now 'conform to its specifications.'

Shawn

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by avb3

As my used car dealer friend tells me, "There's a seat for every ass and an ass for every seat".

Used car dealers can show Rocna a lesson in credibility and transparency.

You know, I just realized something and I have to take my hat off to the Rocna boys for being so clever. If they were running A. Wiener's publicity, he'd still be in Congress.

The test results they show are for a straight pull. Any anchor of any design would demonstrate the ability to hold together on a straight shank pull well beyond the strength of the rode. However (clever boys that they are) this is not what is defective about the Rocna, so they have simply dodged the issue by squirting some ink in the water and darting away. The issue with Rocna is that the sub spec steel they now acknowledge they use results in the bent shanks we have all seen pictures of. So their 'news story' is news about their acknowledgement of fraudulent manufacturing and advertising, but not an acknowledgment that they have any intention of making their anchors as strong as they have said in the past they need to be. Perhaps they know they can still extract a premium price for a sub standard product from the types of people who have weighed in on their behalf on this thread.

As P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute, and I guess some of them own boats.

[GMac]

I asked the Rocna principal "So just what are the anchors made with now?". The reply was 'It's none of your business!'. After a 'Oh come on you have to do better than that', all I could get 'They are fit for purpose'. Considering we sell a couple of 1000 anchors a year and have been involved with Rocna from a long time before they even went to market and have argued with assorted authorities to get them on boats, I would have expected it was.

I am left wondering just whose purpose they are fit for, the end users or the company accountant.

Also wondering why if they are now built using cheaper methods with cheaper materials in a cheap country to no Classification or Quality assurance programme just why they cost so much more than say Supremes which are made with high grade material in higher wages NZ with a not cheap to get LR SHHP Approval and all under the what must be quite expensive Lloyds Quality programme.

I've seen the factory the Rocnas are made in and state of the art she sure isn't. Maybe when they sell enough anchors they maybe able to afford to put windows in the holes in the wall

[avb3]

Originally Posted by GMac

I asked the Rocna principal "So just what are the anchors made with now?". The reply was 'It's none of your business!'. After a 'Oh come on you have to do better than that', all I could get 'They are fit for purpose'. Considering we sell a couple of 1000 anchors a year and have been involved with Rocna from a long time before they even went to market and have argued with assorted authorities to get them on boats, I would have expected it was.

Let me get this straight... you are a *Rocna* dealer and were told this? Was this during the conference call the other week?

I've seen the factory the Rocnas are made in and state of the art she sure isn't. Maybe when they sell enough anchors they maybe able to afford to put windows in the holes in the wall

You wouldn't have any pictures, would you?

[CarlF]

This is not going to end well.

[cwyckham]

After looking at the shaft bending in the Rocna photo of the test jig, I'm sure it isn't from side loading. The shank was pulled at too high an angle and since it can't bend that way (being much higher than it is wide), it buckled and twisted, as one would expect. Doesn't say anything positive or negative that it buckled at those kinds of loads.

The question that they haven't answered is the one one that everyone's curious about. What sort of side loading does a shank need to be able to handle in service? Does the Rocna handle this sort of side loading with the reduced material strength? Peter Smith clearly thought it wouldn't be sufficient based on the information that used to be in Rocna's "Knowledge Base." A straight pull doesn't answer that question. It answers a question that nobody was asking.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by avb3

Let me get this straight... you are a *Rocna* dealer and were told this? Was this during the conference call the other week?

Correct we sell Rocnas and it's main competitors also. The same horse isn't always the best option for all courses. I think we could have been possibly the 1st outfit in the world to sell Rocnas to the boating public.

No to the conference call bit. They or at least the Principal doesn't like my theory we are here to get the end user, that's you the boating public, into the best place for their needs rather than just sell them what our accountant prefers, so he thinks I'm the son of Beelzebub.

We do the just the same with our other product ranges also. Hell, I even sold a big plough yesterday. Isn't it cute people still buy those

You wouldn't have any pictures, would you?

Not handy. If you can imagine 3 block walls with windowless windows in them, that's about it. But they are reasonably new walls which I suppose does allow someone to spin that as a 'purpose built facility'. Just just gotta love the way marketing people see things sometimes

But shortly Rocna may all be pushed to one side. We have yet to confirm them with a set of our own but test info I got recently about a new anchor (not a NZ one this time) shows it cleaning the Rocna up big time. Seems like a new anchor is coming out each month these days. I know of another NZ outfit working on a design at the moment also. They are big and with good resources so the finished article could be one to watch for, we'll see.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by GMac

But shortly Rocna may all be pushed to one side. We have yet to confirm them with a set of our own but test info I got recently about a new anchor (not a NZ one this time) shows it cleaning the Rocna up big time. Seems like a new anchor is coming out each month these days. I know of another NZ outfit working on a design at the moment also. They are big and with good resources so the finished article could be one to watch for, we'll see.

Interesting. will be many watching for more info.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by GMac

Correct we sell Rocnas and it's main competitors also. The same horse isn't always the best option for all courses. I think we could have been possibly the 1st outfit in the world to sell Rocnas to the boating public.

I am absolutely flabbergasted and gobsmaked that any responsible manufacturer would make such a statement to a dealer.

What do the other dealers you talk to feel and have to say about this. It can't be good.

Wow. I just don't know what to say. How can any company take the stance the are... they are flushing themselves down a toilet, and then taking the plunger just to make sure all that sh*t stays down.

Un-friggin'-believable.

[GMac]

I wouldn't stress on it avb, I'm certainly not. It's him and something personal I can't quite put my finger on so I doubt there is much about or in it from a commercial point of view. He does have very strong preconceived ideas on many things, I'm just another by the looks.

To be fair I do believe his attitude/ideas/mindset is not totally of his own doing. Like at least 2 of his other distributors, I think there is a reason for that which is outside of his control or at least partially out of his hands, so to speak.

If Rocna can instil some certainty and transparency about consistent quality I'm sure they'll sell a pile more and the users will be happy people but like many products these days getting over the hump from being a tiny volume niche product as they are into a big volume mainstream product is getting a harder ask for everyone. In pure numbers manufactured Rocna is not a big player at all when talking anchors.

For those interested in that photo of them pulling the 55. The way you see it is the way it would have been pulled for the entire duration I'd say. I've used that very test bed myself and unless they had some dodacky not shown in the photo they would have been very unlikely to do any side pull on it. I would have been interesting to see what the number was when it started to deform rather than the end marketing 28t number. By that stage they are only stretching an already well rooted anchor shank which doesn't really tell anyone anything hugely useful. One does have to wonder if that a chinese anchor or a old NZ made one. And if it's a chinese one which of the assorted steels that have been use was used to make that one.

[S/V Alchemy]

Just when you think this sad tale couldn't get more dire and/or funny, up pops a new report of "something bad with Rocna stamped on it".

I'd love to see that fire block shed, sorry, "Chinese manufacturing facility". Perhaps the absence of windows is to allow the breeze to blow away the stink of the decomposing reputation.