Rocna Size

[ActiveCaptain]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Odd? Don't you mean courageous?

No, I definitely picked the most appropriate word that I would write publicly. The ones I were thinking were edited before hitting the keyboard.

[Cormorant]

Even if Delfin is on the Manson payroll, it doesn't really change the test results. I suppose Rocna can now subject a Manson to various tortures and we'll see a battle of the test results.

For what it's worth, barring further evidence, I don't believe Delfin is on the Manson payroll. Perhaps just a little more obsessively curious than the rest of us. Like the electronics geeks who tear down the latest IPhone.

[ActiveCaptain]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

Like the electronics geeks who tear down the latest IPhone.

Except they can be put back together and used fully.

There's a reason my postings have to wear a "Commercial" badge. It's to provide the reader with a fair interpretation for whatever I write especially in the subject areas of my commercial product. There just seems to be more motivation here than pure curiosity. As informed readers, we should be able to have the information to properly evaluate what's really going on. It just seems like there's a lot more going on here than just some metal testing.

I also have to say that all the scientific analysis in the world doesn't really matter when you have owner after owner with the exact same experience with the anchor. I've had a variety of anchors in my life and we tend to anchor our 40 ton boat a lot. There is just nothing else that performs like this anchor, period.

I also think its sort of sad to see the witch hunt of Craig Smith. So what if he's said some things to annoy people. He has that commercial badge too. He's biased, he believes in his product, and is probably a little over zealous about it. For heaven's sake, move on already.

For what it's worth, I carry 4 different anchors on my boat. There's only one that I've use since it first got wet - the Rocna.

[Exile]

ActiveCaptain -- Sorry if I missed this, but is your Rocna one made in China? Thanks.

[ActiveCaptain]

Originally Posted by Exile

ActiveCaptain -- Sorry if I missed this, but is your Rocna one made in China? Thanks.

I've had it for a few years and it doesn't have the embossed name so I'm pretty sure it isn't a Chinese one.

[Exile]

Thank you. Just so happens I bought & installed a Rocna 33 on my 20T Bristol 3 weeks ago, and before I was aware of the raging debate over construction quality. I bought it new through WM and it has the "Made In China" label. Hopefully I didn't fall for what I'm reading only now is claimed to be false advertising.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by ActiveCaptain

The price of a Rocna 10 seems to be about $350. Now I really like CruisersForum and everything but I can't see myself ever spending $350 to prove something about a series of threads here. The pictures show that the anchor was completely torn apart and made to be useless.

Could you explain where the money came from? Is anyone asking you to do this analysis? Is anyone paying you to do this analysis?

For someone who claims no bias, the text that I read show an incredible bias against Rocna that go beyond the steel analysis done.

I undertook the tests on my own. I'd donate $500.00 towards improving boater safety, and since I'm interested in this topic I consider this the same thing. The fact that you wouldn't is your personal choice, but I wouldn't presume that I could determine something about your character from the fact.

However, if you would like to focus on my motives rather than the results, I guess Rocna will continue to have customers making one product while advertising another. Since manufacturing safety equipment deceptively can hurt people, I plead guilty to a genuine bias against that.

[Kettlewell]

I think before impugning Delfin's motives and character it would be good to have some evidence other than a dislike of what he reports. From all the evidence that I can see here we have an experienced boater with quite an impressive vessel who wants to know that important safety gear he is using is up to snuff, so he set out to find out. How is this different than Evans testing anchors on the beach down in South America or Ben Ellison (Panbo) testing gear onboard his own boat and reporting the results?

Delfin: I applaud the effort and the clear reporting of it! Thank you.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

Even if Delfin is on the Manson payroll, it doesn't really change the test results. I suppose Rocna can now subject a Manson to various tortures and we'll see a battle of the test results.

For what it's worth, barring further evidence, I don't believe Delfin is on the Manson payroll. Perhaps just a little more obsessively curious than the rest of us. Like the electronics geeks who tear down the latest IPhone.

Cormorant, I communicated with Manson as indicated to find out the dimensions of their product and what they would say about problems with their Supreme. Unless they decide to buy my software company that specializes in dental informatics it's unlikely I'll be on their payroll anytime soon.

The nice thing about science is that you can draw empirical conclusions from the data. Clearly there are some here that are immune to objective information, preferring the comfortable world of their own imaginations for determining reality, but for the rest of us, I thought it would be useful to get some actual data rather than endure many more posts based on opinion. I compared the Rocna to the Manson because that is the best analog. The data is what the data is, and unless the Manson folks are also blatant liars, then I doubt they have much to fear from independent testing of their product by Rocna or anyone else. Incidentally, if it was available in NA I'd buy a lunker Sarca Excel to keep Delfin's 65 tons in one spot. It's made of the right steel and IMHO would work better in more conditions that the hoop style, although they clearly have lots of enthusiasts. Including some who don't give a rip what they're made of.

Any you're right. I am the kind of of equipment geek that would tear down the iPhone...

[Hud3]

Questioning Delfin's motives is a red herring. He's stated his motives, and I choose to believe him, but even if I thought he's a Manson operative bent on deceiving us (which I don't), it doesn't matter. The data is the data, based on tests performed and reported by an extremely reputable and competent testing organization. Denying it's veracity by seeking to discredit the messenger would seem to me to indicate bias on the part of the questioners.

Thanks, Delfin, for injecting facts into an emotional and opinionated debate. It seems Rocna has a lot to answer for.

[hummingway]

ActiveCaptain is right and were Delfin involved in the boating industry he should be tagged commercial but when I read his posts last night I did the usual web search and came to the conclusion he was the CEO of a dental software company that, unless your boat is "a little long in the teeth", has nothing to do with boating .

As far as I can tell he has no affiliation that would put his efforts in a different light then what he has suggested.

[Silent Knight]

I'm amazed that anyone would question Delfins motives. Having followed this story since it bagan several weeks ago, across several forums, I've read many of Delfins posting on this subject and he has explained himself several times over. He's just incensed at what has been going on with Rocna and has been prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

Well done Delfin! It's great to see someone stand up for what he believes in.

[Alecadi]

Originally Posted by Silent Knight

I'm amazed that anyone would question Delfins motives. Having followed this story since it bagan several weeks ago, across several forums, I've read many of Delfins posting on this subject and he has explained himself several times over. He's just incensed at what has been going on with Rocna and has been prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

Well done Delfin! It's great to see someone stand up for what he believes in.

I'm amazed about your amazement
I think that it is justified for Active Captain to ask the question: Do you see so often somebody buying one of the priciest anchor on the market just to submit it to destructive tests (quite costly themselves) just for sharing the knowledge on a forum?
The question was justified due to the oddity of this action.
And, with all due respect, I'm still not convinced about the intentions and purpose of this whole exercise: I'm too old for that and I don't any more believe in Santa Claus.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by Alecadi

I'm amazed about your amazement
I think that it is justified for Active Captain to ask the question: Do you see so often somebody buying one of the priciest anchor on the market just to submit it to destructive tests (quite costly themselves) just for sharing the knowledge on a forum?
The question was justified due to the oddity of this action.
And, with all due respect, I'm still not convinced about the intentions and purpose of this whole exercise: I'm too old for that and I don't any more believe in Santa Claus.

Is it possible that I am motivated by not having others buy a safety product that doesn't meet the standards set by the manufacturers, and decided to find out for myself whether the allegations made were true or false? You've questioned my motives for taking the time to provide objective and independent data on a product that may endanger people and their property and think its odd that anyone would care about the subject, but I would be curious to know what your motives would be in objecting to the publication of this information. Why would you want people considering a Rocna not to know it fails to meet the standard set as essential by the designer? Are you in the salvage business perhaps? A Rocna dealer? One of those sad types who make money selling pictures of other's mishaps?

The cost of this, other than my time which I spend as I wish, is about $150, since WM will be refunding the cost of an anchor that is defective in terms of the warranty on the anchor as well as on the basis of WM's own policies.

p.s., I don't think Santa Claus believes in you either.

[Silent Knight]

Originally Posted by Alecadi

and I don't any more believe in Santa Claus.

As has already been said the question of motive is a mere red herring.

The issue at stake is the integrity of an anchor manufacturer. As far I can see you need to believe in Santa to believe anything that Rocna may say.