Sarca Experiences

[Kettlewell]

Brian, that's good to know. I'm not rabid about buying American, but I have had some bad experiences with Chinese knock-off stuff that makes me wary when I am buying a vital piece of safety gear. I've already mentioned around here the claw-type anchor I saw twisted up after a very modest blow and wind shift. I once owned a good-looking Danforth copy that just would not hold reliably. I'm not certain exactly what was off on it, but something wasn't quite right with the geometry and I bet it had 50% of the holding power it should have. I've also seen some very badly bent up plow copies that looked to be about worthless even though they were rather huge. The problem is that a lot of these knock-offs have got the looks down beautifully, but you really can't peer into the steel to see what it is made of. I once worked at a company that had some stuff manufactured in the far east and once we spelled everything out in extreme detail, and after many rounds of back and forth with samples, we got a good product made. However, you had to keep testing continuously because the minute you weren't paying attention they would change some seemingly minor spec. and it wouldn't work properly anymore. I was looking at Ebay today and it is just loaded with mysterious knock-off anchors, and you just know that somebody must be buying and using these things.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Fortress

How true. I noticed that he changed his picture, I suspect because he grew tired of warding off female readers who were attracted to his debonair "Indiana Jones" look.

Actually.... I'd rather be a Croc Dundee... but I can't get the hang of the accent... or the whistle.

[downunder]

thats not a Knife.

[Fortress]

Kettlewell, based on what I have heard from other manufacturers in the marine industry, you are absolutely correct with your assessment of Chinese manufacturers. I have heard horror stories about potentially life saving safety products, such as flares and life rafts, which were sourced in China and they failed when put to the ultimate test.

I have heard it said that if you are making your product in China, then you need to have a person from your company right there supervising the process......and to make sure that they are only manufacturing the product for your company! They have ZERO respect for patents.

I have a distributor in the USA who bought a container of steel anchors from China during the Gulf oil spill. When the container arrived at their warehouse, they figured that about 10% of the steel anchors were damaged and unusable.....but they paid such a cheap price for them that they didn't care!

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

[JonJo]

The Simpson Lawrence Delta was patented by Gordon Lyall and 2 colleagues in the 1980s. Gordon, retired now but still an active yachtsmen (or was a few months ago) was Technical Director of SL. In hindsight there were a number of contraints in the design, they did not have easy access to cheap high tensile steels, SL was a major player in the marine component industry (it became a founding half of Lewmar) and anchors were only one part of Gordon's reponsibility and in fact the Delta took 6 years to come to fruition. Part of the design brief was also to have an easily retreived anchor - which might have been a response to the then innovative Bruce (which might lift mud and be heavy) or simply because 30 years ago most people did not have powered anchor windlasses. The eventual product has stood the test of time and is common on many new yachts - partly unpinned because it is now cheaply manufactured in China (possibly proving that China can be a successful supply base) but also because it was a really innovative design. The design of the Delta was sufficient that it bacame and is still the anchor used on all RNLI lifeboats (and presumably the Bruce and CQR were also considered).

But copying - in many respects, who cares. Peter Bruce patented the first roll bar anchor in 1970 (but rejected its use) and roll bars seem to have been copied by many. Peter Bruce also patented the first concave anchor, and there are many of them around now as well. Copying only becomes dangerous when it discourages innovation or when the word copy might be better replaced with clone.

Anchor Right may have leant heavily, or not, on the Delta design, with their Excel but whatever they have done has resulted in a holding capacity twice that of the Delta - and if doubling holding capacity was that easy - Gordon Lyall would have done it. Modern high tensile steels allow shank weight to be markedly reduced (and Manson and Anchor Right have taken advantage of this) and also allow incorporation of sharp toes and sharp leading edges to the flukes - possibilities commercially impossible 30 years ago. One constraint not imposed on the Excel was the idea of making it easy to retrieve - its not difficult, with an electric winch - but it sets so well you do need patience.

Another comment, I have not heard any horror stories regarding the quality of Chinese made Deltas and equally I am more than happy with my Chinese made Canon camera and Chinese made 'T' shirts etc. In all of these, and many similar cases, there is excellent managment control (or in the case of 'T' shirts it is less important). However all of these products have one thing in common - they are much cheaper than similar product made in the original country of supply. And surely this is part of the key - (much) cheaper product for the consumer commensurate with a quality suitable for the application. There seems little advantage if prices stay high and the risk of quality degradation remain.

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by JonJo

.....
Another comment, I have not heard any horror stories regarding the quality of Chinese made Deltas and equally I am more than happy with my Chinese made Canon camera and Chinese made 'T' shirts etc. In all of these, and many similar cases, there is excellent managment control (or in the case of 'T' shirts it is less important). However all of these products have one thing in common - they are much cheaper than similar product made in the original country of supply. And surely this is part of the key - (much) cheaper product for the consumer commensurate with a quality suitable for the application. There seems little advantage if prices stay high and the risk of quality degradation remain.

GMAC, a former (?) moderator here and well respected member recounted many times the Chinese made Bruce that was dropped on a shipping dock and literally shattered.

Many have had failures of Chinese shackles, and while I like my Kaito radio, (China) I would by no means trust my life or my ship to any Chinese made ground tackle.

[delmarrey]

One thing you have to remember. The Bruce clone is a casting (CQR & some old Danforth too) just like the original. But most of the others are fabricated from plate steel and welded together. I would doubt dropping a fab'ed anchor would cause it to brake apart. Bend maybe!

[JonJo]

I said I had not heard of horror stories with Lewmar's Chinese made Dellta and implied good management kept product like Canon's cameras etc up to scratch (and that with 'T' shirts it possibly did not matter, so much) Possibly, or definitely, I was remis - I have mentioned in other media - beware product without a brand name and beware product where you think managment controls might not be strict.

[Kettlewell]

The problem with this China vs. wherever problem is that we just don't know what we're getting anymore. It used to be you could go out and choose between about three or four major manufacturers, all built either in North America or in Europe. But, more importantly we knew that thousands of other boaters were using the same brands and therefore there was a lot of on-the-water testing going on continuously. The manufacturers knew this and I think maintained pretty high standards over many decades. Nowadays there are tons of competitors out there, many making anchors that look very similar to one another, and many are made in China. Now that is not a condemnation of the product, because we all buy and use stuff made there that we love and performs well. But, many of us have either seen or had our own failures with Chinese stuff made of metal, like anchor shackles, chain, anchors, etc. This makes us wary of the uneven quality that is out there.

[mikaelnygren]

Regarding Sarca Anchors! First of all nothing compares with Sarca anchor
of all anchors i have tested. My boat 53' Dyna (Valhalla) very beamy
and got full in closed fly-bridge so the boat overall is very high ready to catch the slightest wind, as well only sitting in just less 3 feet of water, so the anchoring have for me since i bought the boat 2003 and it has truly been a nightmare when on anchor! The truth is no sleep at all if winds now are anything above 15Kn!The movement of my boat made the anchor drag as for me too many times in the middle of the night. I needed to turn the engines on to drop the anchor again! and again hope it should hold!
Very tiring and to much worrying that made boating not so fun! Saying this I have tested 2 different types that I bought one Manson 65pound and another stainless steel anchor 60 pound both plow anchors! To be honest I thought my boat was the problem and I never will be able to get it right! I saw the stand in sanctuary cove boat-show 2009 and they gave me a dvd with their products Sarca anchors and testing that have been made and proven! It did take me some time still before i was convinced but later i did purchase after consulting and sending photos of my boat etc, and the crew at Sarca were fantastic with no push to sell methods, they did understand my longtime concern and wanted to make sure that it was fitting properly and get the best anchor for my boat! I ended up with SARCA EXCEL No: 8 The best thing i bought since i purchased my boat! We just came back from a trip from Gold Coast to Mooloolaba and have anchored in 30-35Kn wind a few times in hard sand, mud etc no problem at all, not once we slipped, in fact first release of the anchor every time it dug in to hold till we wanted to move on. My family love to be on the water now with Sarca and we have been staying on board more then ever! For me it is heaven! So Sarca i can truly say Thank god for your invention!

[boatman61]

WOW..... Mills n Boon eat yer hearts out...

[CSY Man]

Never heard of Sarca until now.

Got a few other anchors in my log book however..

Good to see Mr. Fortress on these pages:

Got a FX 55 Fortress packed away under my cockpit sole.
Bought it some years ago when the hurricanes were busy ravaging Florida.
The FX 55 had been tested by some tugboat in Miami harbor and earned a 16, 000 lbs holding power rating. About 7,2 metrics tons for the rest of the world.

As my 33' boat came from the factory with a 16, 000 displacement I thought it would be prudent to get one of them FX 55s for my hurricane anchor.
(The anchor will hold the boat vertical in a blow...Wrap that around yer brain ya land-lubbers..)

To be continued.....

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Never heard of Sarca until now.

Got a few other anchors in my log book however..

Good to see Mr. Fortress on these pages:

Got a FX 55 Fortress packed away under my cockpit sole.
Bought it some years ago when the hurricanes were busy ravaging Florida.
The FX 55 had been tested by some tugboat in Miami harbor and earned a 16, 000 lbs holding power rating. About 7,2 metrics tons for the rest of the world.

As my 33' boat came from the factory with a 16, 000 displacement I thought it would be prudent to get one of them FX 55s for my hurricane anchor.
(The anchor will hold the boat vertical in a blow...Wrap that around yer brain ya land-lubbers..)

To be continued.....

Phew... sounds hairy... I'll stick with the Bruce... I'm happier horizontal....

[mikaelnygren]

Yeah, when you have tested a Sarca you never will go back! never mind what you call the rest! I have many years of experience, and own many boats to prove it! Had different anchors previously all types! However it all depends on type of boat! Mine as i got currently own would be by far the most difficult one i have seen, just to hold! Now i am converted forever!
Sarca is the best ever! when you get one you will understand!

[CSY Man]

Cruised around for 8 to 10 years with a Delta 55# on the same CSY 33 sailboat:

Florida and the Bahamas many, many times.
The Delta held up really well and only put me down once or twice.
(Out of 500)

Back in 2007 or so when Rocna came on the market, I did research and talked to guys and checked the internet and decided to get a 44# (20 KG)
Rocna.

Been using the Rocna only about 100 to 150 times, but impressed every time.
She sets easier and holds harder than the 10 kg heavier Delta.

On previous boats I have had CQRs, Bruces, Danforths and other lumps of metal and the only one that stands out good would be the Danforth 12 lbs Hight Tensile. (H/T)
That little anchor has kept me out of trouble and saved my bacon many times...

One time, way back in 1987 or so we sailed over to Buck Island next to St. Croix.
We anchored for lunch and snorkel and such and put the lunch-hook down: (That was the 12 pound HT Danforth.)

At the time, being a young guy with no experience, I had listened to too many "cruisers" tha said you have to have a "Working Anchor", a "Lunch Hook" and a "Storm Anchor".

Long story short: We met some nice folks on a sailboat anchored next to us and the party was going good with drinks and dinner before we hit the sack around 0100 hours.
We forgot about the "Lunch Hook" being down and of course a big thunderstorm came out of nowhere.

The 12 lbs Lunch Hook held the 44' boat through the night when I was snoring and farting my way through the 40 to 50 mph thunderstorm.

To this day I advocate the 12 lbs Danforth H/T to anybody wanting to listen and I got one on the stern of my present boat:

It saved the day when I lost power trying to dock between mega yachts in Fort Lauderdale and told my wife to drop the stern anchor...it held right away and we looked like pros stopping with a couple of feet to spare..

Had a 35 CQR for a few years on the CSY 33 but got read of it, nothing good to report..Mediocre anchor: It dragged my boat in Chub Cay while I was ashore checking the weather forecast..

Good for normal ops, but not for bad storms at night..Dragged and diteched it.

Also dragged and ditched the "normal" Danforth (not High Tensile or High Test) way back in St. Thomas anchored in Lindbergh Bay:
35# for my 44' Bermuda Racer.
Almost lost the boat because of that anchor.

Wiser these days and I relaize the "Lunch Hook" , the "Working Anchor" and the "Storm Anchor" should be rolled into one big nasty piece of metal and in my case it is the Rocna 20 KG (44 lbs)

With that one buried I would sleep good up to an beyond 60 to 70 knots.
Perhaps more.

Anything beyond that and we have a 'cane coming and that is where the 55 Fortress go swimming..At an angle of course.

No anchor will never protect ya from a bad hurricane but I will give it a good try with a combo of high power Fortress and easy-set high power/swing Rocna.